Sunday, April 13, 2008

Part 2 : Tibet :- The truth is not so simple.....

I received a bit of a history lesson among the comments for my previous post on Tibetan protesters. Among the points raised:

a. Tibet has historically been part of China.
b. Western powers have committed human rights abuses themselves.

However, my postings wasn't about the Tibet being part of China all along which is most likely to be true or the whether westerners are barbarians. It was whether protests are a waste of time and whether the Chinese should view it as a ploy to humiliate the Chinese (again?).

Protesters all over the world are nothing but trouble makers. They will seize the moment when the news media of the world is focussed on a closely watched event - otherwise how will they get the attention they seek. The attention brings to focus whatever issues they support be it human rights, animal rights, the environment etc. Of course, if you were fighting an unjust war or polluting the environment and people are protesting against it, you would feel somewhat humiliated. Very often it is the govt that is humiliated and their own citizens are protesting against their policies. When Bush faces anti-war protests overseas, Americans don't feel it is ploy to humiliate them because they themselves might be against the war or believe others have the right to express their view. The human rights protests against China during the Olympic torch, evoked strong reaction among the Chinese that it is ploy by western govts to humiliate the Chinese. However, these govts are also powerless when their own citizens protest against them. You see, in those countries where protests have occurred, it is legal to protest and pro-Tibetan chaps like Richard Gere and Julia Roberts have been brainwashed not by their govts but by the evil Dalai Lama. They actually believe the Chinese govt has committed acts of violence against Tibetans. So there is a different point of view on what is happening in Tibet besides the wonderful economic boom often reported in China's media.

When PM Lee spoke at the forum, there was a rebuttal by a Westerner who said:

"I'm proud of the chaos that surrounds the flame because protest is, to use the Prime Minister's own terms, the way we challenge great minds. It is a new way of revealing basic truths " - Professor Gearty.

I really hope our PM could conceal his laughter when he heard the absurd remark by the misguided professor. Obviously, the professor has no understanding of how harmonious societies like Singapore operate. We ban protests and don't challenge great minds like that of our MM - we simply obey them for our own good.

I hope the Chinese forgive the westerners for their chaotic ways because their society is clearly far behind an advanced civilisation such as China. They (the protesters) are not out to humiliate the Chinese but to reveal basic truths about Tibet. The problem is they don't they have a state media to tell them what the basic truth is about Tibet. The westerners are all confused about Tibet.

Is the Dalai Lama part of an evil elite that exploited their own populace to live in luxury? ...The Chinese are actually liberators of the ordinary Tibetan people?

Watch this:

Thank you CCTV. No wonder the Chinese are angry with the western media. The protesters in Tibet are nothing but violent rioters, looters, arsonists and anarchists - yet they are held up in the western media as freedom fighters against Chinese oppression.

Lets watch another video:

Oops...the Chinese govt is oppressing the Tibetants no thanks to the BBC. No wonder those westerners are confused over who is abusing human rights are protesting against the Chinese govt. Who can blame them after watching the distortion from the BBC? .....If you go back to the words of the professor "protest is.... way of revealing basic truths...". I guess the truth here is not all that simple and requires alot of revealing by both sides.


Anonymous said...

There is only 1 relevant issue here, as far as I am concerned:

Does any western country and its citizen has the moral right to criticise China given its past and continuing records of invading other countries and continents such as the Australia continent and the entire North and South America

This is the only relevant issue, because if the answer is "yes", then every sane objective Chinese should graciously accept it. Conversely, if the answer is "no", then what other conclusion can we have other than that the westerners are out to humiliate/supress/bully China?

So answering this question will answer Lucky's question which he stated is: "whether the Chinese should view it as a ploy to humiliate the Chinese"

My answer to the question in bold is: Only AFTER all the White Australians have packed up and leave Australia can they demand that China leave Tibet. And likewise for Americans etc.

To sweep the issue away by saying that it occurred in the past, is (1) to hold China to a higher moral standard NOW than one holds other countries to in the PAST, and (2) nonsensical anyway because it is NOT in the past - RIGHT NOW, all white Australians/Americans CAN indeed packed up and leave Australia/USA, just as westerners think all HAN immigrants CAN pack up and leave Tibet!

Thus, either way you look at it, focusing only on China's wrongdoings (yes, it is wrongdoing. I don't deny it), while not focusing on Westerners past and continual present wrongdoing is morally wrong --> double standard -> nothing but a ploy/opportunity to bully/humiliate China.

If you really need a more personal analogy, it goes like this:

Your elder brother went gang-rape 10 women and CONTINUE making these 10 women his wives,

your second brother went molest 100 women and CONTINUE living scot-free
till now,

you, the 3rd in line, commit only adultery, and all hell broke lose. Your 2 elder brother protest everyday and your father disown you. In fact, all your neighbours also condemn you. No, more than that. The entire country brings the whole weight of its law onto you!

Tell me, would you not shout at the top of your voice: "WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE PICKING ON ME"?

Can you be faulted for thinking that your 2 elder brothers and your father and the whole country are in a ploy to humiliate/bully/insult you??

For what other explanation can you give for the outrageous double standard?

Incidentally, this is already happening in Singapore context - locals commit molest, go jail and kana caned. Foreigners commit rape, pay fine, no cane. Locals posses drugs, kana death sentence. Foreigners possess drug, a few years in jail only. Tell me, is it not justified for Singaporeans to say that PAP is out to "humiliate"/"bully" locals and are biased against locals?

Now further imagine that 66.6% of singaporeans IGNORES such double standard treatment, but chose to FOCUS only on your crime and only your crime. You talk to them about foreigners commiting same crime, they tell you: "no, don't talk about them. That's in the past, and anyway a different topic. Talk only about your crime! Your crime is the issue of the day"! Would you not call these 66.6% simpletons/pap bootlickers etc? For how can it be fair to pick on you and only you?

See the analogy?

I rest my case!

same anon as above said...

1. All men are wolves.
2. Some raped, some molested, some committed adultery.
3. Rapists and molesters have no moral rights at all to protest at the adulterers' behaviour.
4. To undergo/support such unjustified protest is to lead a rational person to conclude (very accurately!) that the rapists and molesters have hidden agenda to bully/humiliate the adulterer.

I. All powerful countries are invaders. (Find me one that isn't!)
II. Some invaded entire continent, some exterminated entire culture, some invaded only a limited small area and allowed the native culture to continue to exist to a large extent.
III. Continent-invaders and culture-exterminator have no moral rights at all to protest at the limited-invader's behaviour.
IV. To undergo/support such unjustified protest is to lead a rational person to conclude (very accurately!) that the continent-invaders and culture-exterminators have hidden agenda to bully/humiliate the limited-invaders.

So when can the rapist and molester start accusing the adulter?

Simple! After they have paid for their crime FIRST!

Likewise, sure, continent-invaders and culture-exterminator can criticise the limited-invader. No problem - AFTER they leave the coninent they invaded (and we are not even talking about the near-impossible task of bringing back the culture that they exterminated!)

Till then, these people have no moral rights but to lan-lan and shut up! <-- And that, I believe is what the Chinese people on the internet are telling the west. I see nothing wrong with their thinking. Do you? Why?

Anonymous said...

"Protest is a way of revealing basic truth" is true. But focusing protest efforts at China while still ownself living on occupied land is, hmmm, shall we say, hypocritical, laughable and hence, to answer lucky, a waste of time? So I don't know why Professor Gearty is so proud of his hypocritical and time-wasting behaviour!

Maybe after Professor Gearty organised a big protest with the theme: "USA should leave North America now", he would be less hypocritical and less wasting everyone's time, when he protest: "China should treat tibetans better" or "China should leave Tibet"!

Anonymous said...

>When Bush faces anti-war protests overseas, Americans don't feel it is ploy to humiliate them because they themselves might be against the war or believe others have the right to express their view.

When the Chinese Communists government faces anti-war-on-tibet protest overseas, Chinese do feel it is a ploy to humiliate - not a good word. bully would be a better word - them because they themselves are NOT against the war (since they believe tibet is part of China and hence any uprising for independence has to be suppressed, violently if necessary) and they do NOT believe others have the *moral* right to express their contrary view given their own war records.

Anonymous said...

what abt the so many Chinese nationals here in Spore? when will Spore be free from having too many China people here?
free Singapore! free Tibet!

Anonymous said...

I am just sad that the religious card is being played . If I am not wrong, Buddhism has no place in politics...otherwise the Buddha would himself remained on the throne of his kingdom too...

And by the way, Olympics is about sports and it is not to everyone's welfare that it is being politicised. Let's hope that truth, integrity, and compassion prevails...

Anonymous said...

CNN lah, BBC lah, have simply shown one thing - what **any** country would cruelly do when some rebels stage an uprising for independence!

Britain mercilessly slaughtered the Northern Irelanders, and sentenced many to death, when they demanded independence

Hell, they even sentenced Singaporeans to death by hanging when some of our fore-fathers demanded indepdnence! The cruel ISD is an invention of our British colonial master, specially created to torture those pro-independence rebels!

Abraham Lincoln waged a civil war on the south when they want to leave the Union!

Name me a country, which would endure uprising and allow part of its territory to become independent without waging a war?

If Sentosa dare to declare independence, I would be the first to fight against Sentosa-ians!

But question is: did CNN and BBC reported as many human casualty details and show as many gruesome photos, and published as many anti-britain commentaries at the height of the Britain-Northern Ireland war?

If their treatment is light-handed on Britain, but heavy-handed on China, then what can you conclude other than that they have a hidden agenda to bully non-ang mohs???

So call me chinese helicopter or chinese communists or tell me to go back to China all you want, but I shall still think the same - the west is biased against China and there is a hidden agenda to it: to not let China bask in the olympics glory.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately Buddhism is totally political in this issue. Dalai Lama himself was the Lama King of the Tibet Theocracy government, and he was the largest Slaveholder too.

We oversea Chinese do learn a good lesson on how the pro-China demonstrators in London/Paris were totally censored/ignored by CNN/BBC. We knew that communism was learned from the west, now we know press censorship was also learned from the west.

Here are some videos and screen captures about the western media, I was shocked to find out how good and how experienced they can do the brainwash job:

Anonymous said...


Communist China annexed Tibet for its and nearby provinces' rich natural resources, specifically PLUTONIUM. Period.

The West does not want a powerful China, so Tibet should be independent. Period.

Has Tibet historically been a part of China? That's clearly open to debate.

OK, everyone got the facts?

I am a sympathiser of Tibetan independence movement because culturally and politically, China past or present, and Tibet just don't mix.

However, the Dalai Lama leanings towards the West, is over the top. But then again, who can he turn to?

Anonymous said...

There is no need to go back to the days of colonialism - when there was no international platform like the UN to address war crimes and human rights issues - to see clearly the Anglo-American hypocrisy.

Think today. Think inside-job 911 which killed more Americans than the original terrorists managed. The 2 hijacked planes killed may be a few hundred but the subsequent preloaded timed detonation of the WTC buildings killed thousands.

Pockets of outrage but where's the mainstream outcry in the US?

Think also Iraq.

And why did'nt China pick up the Iraq issue before the invasion by the US? Why did'nt China join force with Russia and EU to stop Bush from invading Iraq like saying if you do this, we are ready to oppose you!

Because China has too many problems on its own; because it has more than a billion mouths to feed; because it's better not to offend the US because of trade consideration ... the list goes on.

That's the problem! If as a big country you think too much about your own survival to sideline such issues of mass atrocities on a nation, you will never rise to world leadership.

Then you are always on the defence. And now that the Tibet issue has been raised, China indeed appears defensive if it were to talk of the past wrongs of West.

So don't mix issues. Tackle each issue on its own. Bring it to the UN table and let the international community settle it.

I hope China will assume a more ideal-driven role, a more human rights based leadership. Speak up more based on principles rather than on political strategies.

World leadership must be built on righteousness on its own right, not on cost-benefit considerations, however real they are in the world of realpolitiks.

And then China's own people will learn to be more upright in their dealings, for which they presently are not particularly known for by the world. Sorry to say that.

And Singapore Chinese are not mainland Chinese. Make that clear. They are a different breed and nationality.

Anonymous said...

anon at 11:11,
Yahlor, that's what China did - invaded/annexed. No question about it. But that's what all nations which are strong enough to invade/annex have done and will do in future. It's part of our human history mah. However, got one very important diff. I think of all culture, the west has behaved the worst when they are powerful!!

Some famous fellow once said and Lucky Tan quoted before but I forgot who: "If you want to test a man's character, give him some power".I think we can also say that of culture/race. If you want to know the quality of a race or culture, see what that culture/race does when it is the most powerful nation in the world. Using this criteria, I think the Europeans deserve a D, and China deserve an A. The Indians maybe can get A too, or B? I am not familiar, so I won't comment.

I think I can even be chauvinistic a bit and say that the Chinese race and the Chinese civilisation along with its philosophy / culture /way of life is the most peaceful one in the history of mankind, compared to all other civilisation! Maybe this has to do with Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism or some other thing. But the fact speaks for themselves.

Tibet? Please lah! It's no big deal compared to, hmmm, no need to talk too far back in time, so let's just say, the invasion of Iraq?

Anonymous said...

Anon at 11:36,
>That's the problem! If as a big country you think too much about your own survival to sideline such issues of mass atrocities on a nation, you will never rise to world leadership.

Sorry, sidetrack a bit. I think what you say is insightful and applies to within a country as well: If, as citizens, we singaporeans think too much about our own money-making survival to sideline issues of mass atrocities such as elderly cleaning toilet at 80 yr old etc, we singaporeans will never rise to be the owner of our own country. PAP will never respect us, just as no country respect China. Singaporeans will always be on the defence, just as China is.

Anonymous said...

China worries about the Olympics being boycotted because of the Tibet issue. A great country like China should not fear such a thing.

Let it go, live without the Olympics and China won't be poorer for it. Perhaps China might stand out as symbol of resistance to the hypocrisy of the West, particularly the US and UK the architects of the invasion of Iraq.

If there be human rights abuses in Tibet, let it be known and answered. In the same way, if there be war crimes by the Bush administration it should also be answered. At the UN. Don't let them get away scot-free.

China should lead even if it means answering for any human rights abuses committed by its security forces.

Anonymous said...

somehow, my gut tells me that the bulk of the above 13 comments are from one fella who keeps trying to preach the same thing, using really shallow examples and analogies; "hey they did it too, so why can't we?" line of reasoning.

wonderful. i bet our world class government will then use tt line to suppress whatever protests we have, sdp-led or not. oh hang on, we're millions miles ahead in that area.

LuckySingaporean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LuckySingaporean said...

anon 9:43
anon 10:11

::::Does any western country and its citizen has the moral right to criticise China given its past and continuing records of invading other countries and continents:::::

Good point. China doesn't have a record of invading other countries and colonising them...which makes them the good guy in this respect. I think it is the do-gooders of the western countries who are protesting and that puts the pressure on their own govt to do something. These people protest not just against the Chinese govt, but against western govts, they protest against poverty, the exploitation of the developing world etc. I think the Chinese people should not take it too personally.

As human beings, they have the moral right by western standards to protest anything they view as unjust.

Your point about White austrailians & white americans should keep their mouths shut until the evacuate by the millions back to original continents is a strange one. Nobody is asking chinese to evacuate China, many are protesting the violation of human rights of the people who oppose the Chinese govt. There is no contradiction here, the Austrailian aborginals can protest for the whites to leave Australia anytime without getting arrested and jailed. In doing so the get concessions from the Austrailian govts and sympathy for the white folks. In US, the Indians are now allowed to operate casinos on reservation land which turned many of them into millionaires, they sort of realised it is now impossible to ask 200 million westerners to leave N.America and go somewhere else. But if they want to they can have street protests for that anytime - it is their right, the same cannot be said for the Tibetans in China.

anon 11:00am,

:::Britain mercilessly slaughtered the Northern Irelanders, and sentenced many to death, when they demanded independence

Hell, they even sentenced Singaporeans to death by hanging when some of our fore-fathers demanded indepdnence!::::

Goodness they should be punished!!! I guess the people who committed those crimes are dead other wise the 400 human rights lawyers will be coming after them. I don't think there should be any exceptions western or asian. The protest against the Iraq war where thousands march against Bush for his war was far bigger than what we are seeing for Tibet.

My message to everyone is simple - these human rights guys don't discriminate they protest against everyone and more often against their own government. The western govts are historically more barbaric than the Chinese in many ways. That is why the Chinese shouldn't feel humiliated at all, they should not feel they are being picked on. There are even US veterans of the Iraq war who now oppose the war calling their own govt war criminals who authorised the shooting of civilians. If there is anyone who should be ashame it is the American govt. Why should the Chinese feel humiliated or that people are out to humiliate them? That is precisely my point, there is nothing the Chinese have done that is half as shameful as Iraq or Vietnam, they should hold their heads up. They shouldn't feel humiliated, they should stand tall and understand that protests is a part of the basic rights of people in the western world - a right to express any injustice committed their own govt and foreign govts. They have the right simply because they are human beings born in democracies. If you're born there, you took have the right to protest against them.

Anonymous said...

Hypocrisy of the West? What could be more hypocritical than this: the Chinese government staged the whole shebang — the violent 'Tibetan' rioters are really People Liberation Army soldiers dressed up in monks' robes.

They got their own soldiers to attack their own police, then kow peh kow bu in front of the whole World. How more pathetic can the Chinese get?

Anonymous said...

Brit spies confirm Dalai Lama's report of staged violence

By Gordon Thomas

London, March 20 - Britain's GCHQ, the government communications agency that electronically monitors half the world from space, has confirmed the claim by the Dalai Lama that agents of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, the PLA, posing as monks, triggered the riots that have left hundreds of Tibetans dead or injured.

GCHQ analysts believe the decision was deliberately calculated by the Beijing leadership to provide an excuse to stamp out the simmering unrest in the region, which is already attracting unwelcome world attention in the run-up to the Olympic Games this summer.

For weeks there has been growing resentment in Lhasa, Tibet's capital, against minor actions taken by the Chinese authorities.

Increasingly, monks have led acts of civil disobedience, demanding the right to perform traditional incense burning rituals. With their demands go cries for the return of the Dalai Lama, the 14th to hold the high spiritual office.

Committed to teaching the tenets of his moral authority---peace and compassion---the Dalai Lama was 14 when the PLA invaded Tibet in 1950 and he was forced to flee to India from where he has run a relentless campaign against the harshness of Chinese rule.

But critics have objected to his attraction to film stars. Newspaper magnate Rupert Murdoch has called him: "A very political monk in Gucci shoes."

Discovering that his supporters inside Tibet and China would become even more active in the months approaching the Olympic Games this summer, British intelligence officers in Beijing learned the ruling regime would seek an excuse to move and crush the present unrest.

That fear was publicly expressed by the Dalai Lama. GCHQ's satellites, geo-positioned in space, were tasked to closely monitor the situation.

The doughnut-shaped complex, near Cheltenham racecourse, is set in the pleasant Cotswolds in the west of England. Seven thousand employees include the best electronic experts and analysts in the world. Between them they speak more than 150 languages. At their disposal are 10,000 computers, many of which have been specially built for their work.

The images they downloaded from the satellites provided confirmation the Chinese used agent provocateurs to start riots, which gave the PLA the excuse to move on Lhasa to kill and wound over the past week.

What the Beijing regime had not expected was how the riots would spread, not only across Tibet, but also to Sichuan, Quighai and Gansu provinces, turning a large area of western China into a battle zone.

Anonymous said...

The photo cited by anon 7:41 of China's soldiers holding monks robes allegedly to dress up as monks and attack police, so that put the blame on Tibetans, is interesting but also unprofessionally done.

If the Chinese govt wants to play this kind of game, it had better learn from the professionals of the dark cabal in America. They are far more advanced, with some still believing their story to this day.

Otherwise straighten up, big country and be different in the right way.

It is sickening to see governments doing this kind of things. It belongs to the dark ages, never mind the history of China is filled with such political intrigues.

Localized Multi View said...

Given that most Overseas China "Talent" Which study here are born one child policy type sheltered from the world views esp they were born after 1989.Their blind loyalty that was recreated using the Singapore experience (eg the China NS? voluntary type met resistance there :P). They have a right to be a well bottom frog.
Tibet :- The truth is not so simple.....
Agreed, As time will tell the truth after the "Great??" person is gone.
Without This Event
China would not be at the present Economic position.
“Remember, remember the fifth of November,
The gunpowder, treason and plot,
I know of no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.”
And always remember that under a democracy The people choose their leader.
So if you can't stand the heat go back :)

Anonymous said...

Wow! This is getting a bit tense, before anyone shoots me down, what exactly does the Tibetans wants?


Rejects Chinese subjugation?

Keep the Han Chinese out?

The return of a reincarnated leader?

Resist the modern ills of society?

Vaguely, stop Human rights abuse?


The Free Tibet Campaign website did little to help.

Anonymous said...

oh, i saw someone posting a photo that claimed that the Chinese government got its soldiers to pose as monks in the riot...

well, just for clarification sake, the photo is not taken this year.

i. two years ago, the chinese military has changed their uniform code and the uniform shown here is not the current version.

ii. the temperature in tibet in march is cold, but you see the people in the photo only wearing t-shirts...they are totally not cold.

iii. a lot of western filemakers made scene shots in tibet over the past decade, and at that time, they used the soldiers to pose as monks for their films. so this photo seems to be taken under that condition.

iv. lastly, if these soldiers were posing as monks, don't you thnk those tibetans would have hantam them first? do you think it is so easy for han people to pose as tibetan monks in the riot and not been found out? and if that photo is true, do you think the western governments will not have used this photo as the official evidence and created a hooha?

So, please do check the facts and think about possibilities first before believing and circulating such photos and become the unknowing propagenda tool of those with agenda. It is not good to stir up anger in others.

And most importantly, always believe in truth, integrity, and compassion.

yamizi said...

Hi Lucky,

I would take my bet that you perfectly understand that both the China and western media are having very opposite views on what's happening on the ground.

As much as I sympathize the Tibetans who might been the victims of human rights abuse, those who staged the protest has really gone a further scale. You cannot compare this kind of protest to those of what our gahmen would have meant or experience.

On a personal note, I would have understand why China might felt the humiliation. I mean, if those pro-Tibetans are really so concern, they could have staged protests way before the torch relay. Now there are some footages showing some protestors attempted to disrupt the torch relay physically. I see that these protestors have no regards to the Olympic Games at all.

To me, these pro-Tibetans are just smart opportunists. Or is there a organised plan behind all of this? We won't really know.

I would have only hope to see the Olympic Games in full glamour by exhibiting the spirit in competitive sports; not becoming a stake in the game name politics.

Anonymous said...

'So, please do check the facts and think about possibilities first before believing and circulating such photos...' - anon 6:38

I agree completely on this point. But then how does the world check the facts when there are various govts - China, UK, Germany, US - and their activists doing their own things. Just go to YouTube and see the propaganda there.

How to verify facts when China keeps insisting it is an internal matter, so don't interfere?

Yes according to UN charter, domestic matters are beyond the UN to intervene except under certain dire conditions. Something like that.

But precisely some countries using this clause remain set in their ways. And I am not talking about China only. Even the US & UK were culprits and I think worse off on that count. They decided to star a war on Iraq and went ahead as though they own the world.

So that's the problem. There is the UN, so bring it to the UN and thresh out the Tibet case. If certain Western countries and their activists have been up to monkey tricks on the Tibet issue, they will be exposed through UN investigation.

After it is settled, then take up the Iraq issue and put Bush and Blair on the dock.

This is an opportunity for the world not to be lost, so that the real evil ones will not get away scot free.

Use the UN! Do it properly.

thupten said...

CAN YOU DO THAT??????????

Anonymous said...

tsk tsk tsk. the result of too many 'a's way of thinking.

if i were the tibetans, i won't want the erp,ecp,gst,cpf,hdb,mdc,ccp,std etc. once you allow the 5c into your land, everything changes and you become slaves to corporations and state controls!

i hope there will be people out there smart enough to reject a certain tiny red dot myopic and self serving idea of what's life is about.

anyway. a much bigger looming issue ahead. dr money put it quite well in tnp today . no solutions to the old and food crisis. it is the end of the golden age, he said. but he forget to add that this tiny red dot multi millionaire ministers were partly or mostly responsible for the wars/conflicts and global depletion of food/resources by exporting their 'successes and prosperity ideology' - in this region especially.

well, the CONSUMING locusts have landed and invaded and shall continue to invade!!!

china? haha. the biggest sucker( not the only one) and..a possibly impending war ahead if the warmongers will have their way to solve global problems!

Anonymous said...

error in post. meant to say 'oil and food crisis.hehe.

one up for computer bot.))

Anonymous said...

So this is about human right abuse huh?

As hypocrisy goes, Western countries do have a lot to answer for, see Guantanamo, the war in Iraq, those renditions flights, all sanctioned by a democratically elected governments.

How about the Saudis? Their human rights record isn't fantastic, there's no democracy, what about?

What about the Burmese, North Koreans, shouldn't the Chinese be credited for stopping the violence from escalating in Burma? Encouraging the North Koreans to give up its nuclear plan.

What those protest has far more implications than just rising awareness, it boils distrust and divisions among the West and China, and this at a time when we all have to live under China's increasing economic clout.

Anonymous said...

once the education system kicks into full swing, they can expect their buddhists teachings to take a backseat. soon chanting scriptures into the night will be replaced by drinking holes, massage parlors and karaoke to john denver. family fun used to be watching children playing catching now, children will be hanging out in shopping malls feeding fatty hamburgers and shop lifting. the place will be so wired, which public toilet you did your business the authorities also know.

modernization also brings new jobs. today's old folks who used to smell fresh air outside of their humble shack can smell fresh toilets in posh public buildings when they work there - cleaning of course lah.

apart from the welcome rich poor divide widening, their comcare will also welcome them if need be. if not, there will be more trash bins for them to make a living.

best part is the rule of law will get very complex of course. carry some flour you get death sentence. oh yes, no chewing gums!

best best part, soon they will all talk fake ang mohs or rojaks! hahaha

chinese pride? where got? even european style homes also want to copy and whole town somemore! haha

Anonymous said...

hmmm ... guys, I recommend that you read the 2 books Genghis Khan and Kublai Khan by John Man. If you go by the logic that Tibet is historically part of China, than China can also claim parts of Russia, poland and hungary, entire Korea, etc, essentially the sphere of influence that Kublai wield at the height of his power.

Of course, then Mongolia can calmly lay claim that China is actually part of Mongolia since Kublai was responsible for starting the Yuan Dynasty ....

Onlooker said...

Following The logic of the anon above
Yuan dynasty(include China) = Genghis Khan
Genghis Khan = Khan of Mongolia
Therefore Mongolia own China, As evidence by the fact that Puyi Stayed in the sovereign state Mongolia in self impost Exile.
Therefore Tibet = part of Mongolia never mind the fact Mongolia independent in 1911 and have very little resource
Esp The fault belong to Taiwan(otherwise know as ROC). Whom We are Kaki with esp when Leeder ask Mr Chiang Kai-shek for technological help.
Agreed with the hongkies localized though bout the massacre incident.
China Adopt a fast growth track a few year after 1989 which actually would be the age of most of the fathers and study-accessory mom of the Import scholar :).

Luohan said...

Many people are deeply influenced by western media and the western propaganda.

The following links may provide 'enlightenment' to some:

The Olympic Torch Relay Campaign

"The Role of the CIA: Behind the Dalai Lama's Holy Cloak"

Pictures in Chinese, but not yet in the West

Anonymous said...

Luohan Above me Is a typical propagandist
Notice All his Site that are spam using Same Stuff over and over again
And reeked of lecturm3
The fake pedra bianca Blogger.
He is a chinese citizen Wasting a University position in NUS and dirtying the toilet in Dormitory with less than perfect Grade and cca. If you care so much Go back to china that you are so proud of lah!
Don't waste our resource please.
All your bases are belong to China.
Hoard the Rice and Oil from Burma.
Thanks for causing the inflation. No wonder they can afford sport cars.
I am boycotting Beijing Olympics. Cause even the Official jing jing clearing the sky Flash game is Stolen from Some college student project called snowday Shame on Chi.. w8 It is the capital of software piracy afterall my bad.
In a democratic country this is call Freedom of Speech :)
Deal with that.
So Are We suppose to Eat Newspaper Dumpling,Sars Carrying Civet cat or just buy lead filled Thomas the train Toys. No thank you ,Buy them for your own children.