Tuesday, June 17, 2008

".....old people have the dignity of employment...."

Chee Siok Chin was charged for contempt of court. Just listen to what she said in court and you will understand why this woman has to be put in jail.

Download here MP3

"...Except demonstrating that in Singapore old people have the dignity of employment...the question is irrelevant" - Davinder Singh.

"....dignity of employment? When you're in your seventies and you're bent over when you have to work because the govt does not take care of you. Dignity? You give a whole new meaning to the word dignity, Mr Singh. Perhaps you can create your own Davinder Singh dictionary" - -Chee Siok Chin

Our PM might sound a bit subdued in the recording that is because he was facing Chee Siok Chin an activist who once tried to bite a police woman when arrested. The best moment camefrom Davinder Singh who explained why old Singaporeans have to work. I remember Davinder Singh well from his debating days in NUS, you can put Davinder Singh on any side of a debate and that side will win. I'm so glad he has chosen to join the correct side to help fend off irrelevant questions from these fiece opposition members and defend the dignity of old folks to work.

"Do you know what it's like for Singaporeans to squeeze like sardines, smell each other's breath in MRTs and have to wait, sometimes for a half hour, for the bus to arrive?" - Chee Siok Chin

"I resent being called a sardine Ms Chee. It took me weeks to overcome the smell and you have to go remind everyone how unpleasant it is to be packed like cattle...." - Lucky Tan

The questions asked by Ms Chee were totally irrelevant to assessing the damages. The issue of old folks working and ordinary Singaporeans struggling is irrelevant to the reputations of our leaders. Their reputations are built on solid achievements and you can read about their grand achievements in the mainstream media everyday and about how well Singapore Inc is doing under their leadership. Indeed, it is clear their reputations have been damaged by the Chees and the Chees continue to damage their reputations by asking irrelevant questions in court. It will take quite a few weeks of Straits Times to rectify the damage but the Chees cannot go unpunished. Bankruptcy, jail, and humiliation via the media - the whole country now knows Chee is a nut case and his sister scandalised the court. In Singapore, nobody in the right mind will criticise the govt the way that the Chees did - so it is natural to conclude that they are crazy. In any other country, they would have been just called "critics of the govt" and there are hundreds of thousands of them in S. Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But in Singapore, there shouldn't be any critics in the same mold as the Chees because our govt is so perfect that any harsh critcism thrown at them would be unjust, scandalous, libelous and damages their distinguished reputation. There are 300 million American citizens and not a single one has been sued for defaming George Bush....they have 300 million people but they don't have people there like the Chees - psychopathic, anti-social, scandalous and downright evil. Singapore has jailed so many political dissidents to help stabilised our small island because although we are small we face unique threats in the form of wayward political thinking that western democracies don't have to deal with. Singapore is a safer better place now that the Chees have been sent to jail and the reputations of our leaders protected from harm. Singaporeans can sleep more soundly tonight...our island is safe....


Anonymous said...

The audio recording being released in the web really shows what people have not seen or heard before. Its revealed more of the character of the persons and also of the institution.

Capt_Canuck said...

I think the Lees and PAP really should sit in their homes and contemplate this quote from another very powerful, and deserving of respect, leader when they broadcast their great leadership of the PAP.

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t."

- Margaret Thatcher.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that the average singaporean workers take home $4k per month as reported by today's papers(inflation erodes real gains in wages)?

life is good here!

Alan Wong said...

I just wonder how distinguished would the reputation of a person be if he has to resort to jailing his political opponents in order to cling to power.

At best his reputation would be equivalent to that of Mugabe, Musharaf, Mahathir, etc.

If our courts think otherwise, do you, for a second, think that they are not biased ?

Anonymous said...

Dear Lucky

The poor in their seventies (and bent over) are exactly the class most likely to vote for PAP.

Look at the sheer apathy\disdain at the Chee siblings.

National education has won.

Most locals either cant think, have no time to think or simply do not care. Caring is expensive and the reward is disgrace and to be shunned by the very people u want to help.

Change will have to come from within PAP (or at least old money).

I am sure the old man knows it and it is not by chance that there are no prominent leaders within PAP (other than himself).

But who knows? When the old man is gone, maybe Davinder(or Tharman) might be the agent for change.


Anonymous said...

I think noname is right. The poor and elderly are exactly the people who blindly support the PAP and even the oracle admit that old ladies 65 years and above support him. But most old men do not support him, mind you, because they are more politically aware sitting in coffeeshops and listening to coffeeshop talk.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the audio.It provide a glimpse into the judiciary process here.
Good points for defense but no answer just like Seat warmer time in Jur.
FYI potong pasir,anson,hougang?previously BN esp Jur too CTP.
Old people have views too but come progress package they forgot the pains and the losses of sons.
Another FYI they also remember OTC pap stonewalled.
Principle: Better the devil you know than to take a great risk esp with CPF as collateral, failsafe vs the employed. The plan need Salary man to work.
Therefore the GIC for control of independent entreprenuer.
To prevent the formation of independents to challenge the dynasty.
FMI the presidential election where theres one nominee is shoot down with Lui.

Anonymous said...

A losing battle from the start...... Every single question was disallowed.

celyra said...

Ms Chee sounded apprehensive and lacking the confidence in her questions. That made her an easy opponent to deal with. But i think Davinder Singh's reply on the "dignity" of the old working people backfired on the govt instead.

Anonymous said...

aiya no need SDP to expose the Lees lah, when the PM Lee said that he has to raise GST to 7percent to help the poor & elderly, it says a lot about this Lee.

Says a lot about this PM when he changes the NS laws to reduce slavery years because his son is doing NS.

Anonymous said...

despite having no legal training, she makes a rather good litigator. many too, with some guidance, can perform equally well in asking the right questions that lead to the truth.

CSC : Mr Lee, I have 5 more minutes. Do not waste my time.

LHL : And therefore, this is the process of the law.

however, the process of the law can help to relief you of unwelcome anxiety.

yamizi said...

Can audio in the courtroom de meh?

Anonymous said...

Yes, without doubt the old are the ones who have religiously supported the PAP in the early years and LKY later. To them LKY has become the PAP with all the old leaders gobe or disposed and they remain loyal to him only. With him gone the party will not enjoy such support as the old have realised that the growth years have been replaced by the golden years for the elites, rich and foreigners.

On another issue, the 4K average is but the average as the top 20% earn obcene amount of money (including the Ministers). Understand that 60% of Singaporeans earn less than $2500(I might be wrong here). BTW did anyone realise non of the reports on the raise in ERP mentioned how much the government will earn from the increase.

Anonymous said...

People need to understand the history on how the pappies or the old man came into power. Gaining the support of the people is one thing and making sure that there are no opposition (not for the lack of opposition) is another issue. We always hear of the bragging about transforming Singapore into what it is but then again what evidence is there to deny that someone else or with a two party system we might not be the Norway or Finland of Asia.

Anonymous said...

Sometime taking the average can be very misleading. For example if you have 1 person earning 3 million a year and 100 others earning $14.4k ($1200 pm) a year, the average is $3.6K a month. Taking just the average of $3.6k pm looks extremely good, but in reality there can be 100 people unable to make ends meet. So statistics do lie.

Anonymous said...

I disagree. Statistics doesn't lie. It is people who lie. Numbers are numbers thats it.

But people are very good at misrepresenting what the numbers really mean.

Just read the straits times.

Anonymous said...

it's difficult for the average person to gauge the economic buoyancy of your fellowmen in sg. on the surface, things look fine. everyday, you see the usual crowd working or going to work, shop and eat in your regular malls or public areas. hardly, you'll come across beggars( unless you regard those selling tissues as beggars) if at all . the roads are still packed with vehicles despite rising fuel costs. family restaurants are still packed with long queues especially the weekends. visit any estates, you can hardly find slums developing let alone ghettoes people.

other than encountering your typical ugly Singaporeans when you step out of the house, it's difficult to convince the average person things are bad here.

citing smelly bodies in sardine packed trains and a few sighting of vagrancy, which is not unusual even in the finest cities, can hardly qualify a protest or uprising.

with ample jobs, careful spending and ahem... staying clear of legal suits, your life is what you make of it.

therefore, the conclusion of it all, life is soooooooooo goooood in sg! LOL.

or is it? ;)

Anonymous said...

Yes, life is so good in Singapore, on the surface, that is. What I suspect is we are becoming a little like the Americans, spending as if there is no tommorrow. And most Americans are just discovering their folly and are now in deep shit.

Here, in paradise, with 50% of professionals having no plans for retirement, it really needs some pondering about those non-professionals earning much less. Yeh, it is sooooo goooood in Singapore right now!

Anonymous said...

"...it's difficult to convince the average person things are bad here".

I seem to feel the same way too. In fact on several occasions vocal govt critics (taxi drivers, friends ...) talking to me end up with the saying "But one thing good about Singapore is that it is safe".

I found this consensus kind of amusing. This is because how can this little island not be safe. It is so easy to control.

Furthermore, in Singapore the only threat to PAP is the opposition. In other countries they have other groups like independent labour unions, royalty, traditional community-religious factions, clique of retired military leaders and sometimes working hand-in-hand with the royalty.

This is why Thaksin who in my view was many times better than LKY in consolidating political power had to resign. This is why govts in such countries sometimes appear weak in their rule because they have to make sure they do not offend these other powerful factions of society.

Furthermore unlike Singapore, being much larger countries dissidents and rebels move around with much greater liberty and are hard to pin down by their security forces.

If PAP were to rule there using its strong arm methods, it would be overthrown very quickly; over there the chicken LKY would not dare to move around given his constant need to surround himself with some many body guards in public in such a civilized and safe country as Singapore .

The external order in Singapore hides an insidious rot - the lack of transparency and accountability on huge issues which have been addressed in this and other blogs.

Today we do not really know how the finances of the Singapore govt really is especially the many huge multi-billion dollars losses over the last few years through Temasek and GIC.

Anyone who think he knows must be more knowledgeable than President Ong Teng Cheong who admitted he had a problem with that.

We do not know what is happening to our CPF savings given that PAP keeps upping the draw-down age.

We do not know why PAP is allowing rampant workers' exploitation with the use of temp and contract work and with no overtime compensation.

150,000 Singaporeans are abroad according the Straits Times special report covering many pages (Jun 14) and in its survey of teens in 2006, 53% of them wanted to leave Singapore permanently compared to 28% in Malaysia.

Why is this happening if Singapore is such a good place to live?

[ Despite what we might think of Straits Times, occassionally some of its more responsible journalists do come up with good articles like that. ]

Anonymous said...


GIC invested USD11.9 billion in UBS (Dec 2007)
Share price drop from USD48 to USD24.09
Loss of 50% or USD5.9 billion.
GIC invested USD6.9 billion in Citigroup in (Jan 2008).
Share price drop from USD28 to USD20.40
Loss of 27% or USD1.8 billion,
Temasek invested 4.4 billion in Merill Lynch (Dec 2007).
Share price drop from USD58 to USD37.55
Loss 35% or USD1.5 billion.
Temasek invested USD4.6 billion in Barclays (late July 2007 & subsequently
when Barclays ABN Amro merged).
Share price drop from USD700 to USD326.25
Loss of 53% or USD2.4 billion.

So as on 18 Jun 2008 loss figures : 5.9 + 1.8 + 1.5 + 2.4 = USD11.6.
(42% loss out of a total investment of USD27.8 billion)

This is a loss of S$16 BILLION.

Now you know why the ERP entry timing has been pushed forward by an hour. More to come to make up for the aforesaid losses.

Squeeze as much from Singaporeans so as to feed the rich & powerful who feast sumptuously and then tell PAP to foot the bill. And PAP in its utter weakness toward the powers would just obey.

We are not only slaving for PAP but for the Western banks which used to have insidious control of the US govt & the world through finances. But not much longer, yet PAP does not see this waning of the US banks and went in like a savior. Yeah it is like using a toad to lift up the broken leg of a table, as a Chinese saying goes. PAP is that toad.

How else can we explain these 4 idiotic investments? As LKY said GIC and Temasek are into these investments for the long haul ... like in another 20 - 30 years time to see profit.

Such is the genius of LKY and PAP, and the very reason why PAP demands to be paid the highest in the world.

And of course there are always those who insist that PAP is such a exceptionally excellent govt and cannot understand what we are complaining about. If everyone thinks like these blind supporters, this country will surely end up in a terrible mess.

This is why we are making ourselves heard never mind the wonderful opposition parties incorporated into the PAP system - and part of the establishment now - are not doing so and want very much to be in PAP's good book and of course end up being very well paid also lah.

Anonymous said...

from what i hear from my lawyer frens, taping a court hearing is illegal, its contempt of court.

i guess that the Chees have decided that they are already going down, so might as well go down, blazing??

Anonymous said...

If you were the Chees would you do the same? After all, there is nothing else to loose and maybe, even something to gain.

Anonymous said...

CSJ is acting like a cornered man. Yes he is a victim of PAP thanks to the bad mouthing by his former NUS superior MP Vasoo. But what he is doing is the same path taken before by former opposition members who were finished off by detention without trial.

For CSJ I fear the judge might slap a very high quantum of damage on him and his sister resulting them being jailed for a long time. I hate to think of this but under the current circumstances, this is real.

You can see that PAP is still pretty tight in its rank and file.

There was a internal rebellion around the late 80's when GCT with the support of his cabinet colleagues wanted to take the PM post for good, only to be put in his place and shown who was still boss around.

As the story went, several ministers threatened to resign but were forced to do so over a period of years so that the public did not know what was going on.

This attempted coup as it were was the reason for the by-elections for Marine Parade right after the GE in 1988 for him to prove to the real boss that his ground support was high enough for him to be PM.

In other words LKY runs a tight ship and a head-on confrontation with PAP is like a warrior rushing headlong into a large powerful army. Unless one is superhuman, little can be accomplished thereby ... contrary to what some - like Yawning Bread - might think he is changing the political landscape.

You see for some reasons, probably because of PAP propaganda against him aided by the other opposition parties sidelining him and may be because he cannot connect very well with the ordinary masses, CSJ is not popular with the masses if his past election result is anything to go by.

As for what I mean he cannot connect well with the ordinary masses, he once mocked at Singaporeans for treating shopping as one of their favourite past-times. This just goes to show how overly-intellectual a guy he is.

I think the opposition as whole has not done enough strategizing and rest satisfied with its present arrangement. WP is probably the most subtle but still I think it is not good enough to outsmart PAP.

You are dealing with a very kiasu ruling party and for that you got to keep thinking of how to deal with it. There is too much smugness and perhaps even PAP-type of arrogance of we-know-best even in opposition.

Anonymous said...

"CSJ is not popular with the masses if his past election result is anything to go by."

anybody who dare to stand up and question(one shouldnt be afraid of asking even stupid or OFFENSIVE questions either because people are rather ignorant in the dark aren't they?) the powers cannot be that unpopular. besides his reputation butchered , i think people may not want to be associated with somebody who is unpopular with the government for fear of being marked by the powers.

Anonymous said...

Now the SDP is in hot soup for releasing the court transcripts. Didn't the Straits Times(full of former ISD officers) do this 2 years ago in the NKF case?

This shows the double standards of the Singapore Judiciary System and only reaffirms its kangaroo status.

Anonymous said...

Ah, but you cannot question or doubt the status of the judiciary.

Anonymous said...

As mentioned by some above, old people generally support PAP. I think this is true. And why? Because they suffered the nightmarish Japanese occupation during WW2, they experienced joblessness and financial hardship in the post-war and the baby boom years.

So when self governance came along and PAP took control, all hope was placed on it. The old then saw the transformation of Singapore into what it is today and thus give credit to PAP.

Now that they are old, what is important to them is not change of government but national stability during their twilight years.

Of course the young generation cannot see eye to eye on this matter because their hopes and expectations are different.

However, the future of Singapore belongs more to the young if just to think of the economy only. This is not to say that the old folks are unimportant but rather that if PAP does not take good care of the concerns of the young such as their career prospects in Singapore, the old generation will also suffer because the young would not be able to look after them.

The older generations should not be preoccupied with the past, how much PAP has wrought for the nation. After all, the larger credit lies with the people not the govt of the day for the nation's progress.

In any case, it is the present and the future that is important and for this reason, old as people are they should understand things beyond their personal perspective based on history. "Time and tide waits for no man" applies here because if one is captive to the past, the present and future realities will slam upon one like a sledgehammer.

Think of their children and grandchildren and ask whether under the current regime, how far their future can be assured.

If they don't care, then it may become a case of nobody caring for them in the near future. Think just of the health care costs, the lack of state-sponsored nursing/ retirement homes and the token grudging state welfare.

If they do not bother, they will end up not being bothered by both state and kins, the latter themselves lacking the capacity - financial or otherwise - to look after them properly given the slow but steady destruction of their career opportunities under the PAP labour policies.

Just to give an indication of what is happening, I just found out from a job recruitment agency that nowadays some 30% of job vacancies for Poly grads nowadays are temp/contract job and paid around $7 an hour or $1200 monthly.

Anonymous said...

These two current blog articles reveal how the other opposition parties have been viewing CSJ:

1) Dr Wong Wee Nam who once stood as a NSP candidate in a GRC writes this :

"I am not a great fan of Dr Chee Soon Juan's methods. Many years ago, when he was about to go on his hunger strike, Mr Chiam See Tong, his SDP party chief called me and asked me to try and talk him out of his impending action. I tried but failed and I told Chiam he was too obstinate to change his mind." LINK

Obviously the writer agreed with Chiam that Chee's hunger strike was wrong. But was it wrong because he was fighting for a personal reason believing he was being unjustifiably fired from his NUS post? Or was it wrong because hunger strike had never been a part of Singapore's political culture. Or was it wrong because it was being derided by PAP?

I think it was considered wrong by both Chiam and Wong for the simple reason they have too much of a pro-establishment mindset.

In the same article while saying that PAP should not be calling CSJ a near psychopath and anti-social, the writer yet has this to say:

"It is one thing to disagree with a person's ideology, his methods and his political agenda. By all means, attack his thoughts, his VALUES and his PRINCIPLES. By all means, criticise him with the HARSHEST of words on his methods and his agenda. But to suggest that a person may be mentally not right when there has never been a psychiatric examination, is the meanest thing to do ..."

Oh, I see Dr Wong is encouraging PAP to attack CSJ with all the verbal arsenal it possesses. In that case, I think calling CSJ a near psychopath and anti-social would be mild, Dr Wong.

What kind of hypocrisy is this?

2) Lawyer Chia Ti Lik who was once with WP also revealed to us a similar attitude among the WP CEC toward CSJ:

"I bought the book at Dr. Chee’s book launch in June 2005, shortly after i was elected into WP’s CEC. My presence was reported in the papers by reporter Aaron Low from the Straits Times. How do i remember this? Well the memories are clear because, I perceived a near censure from the WP CEC for getting too closely involved with SDP and Dr. Chee. I never understood why then. :) But now i do." LINK

I am glad Mr Chia left the WP, a party that is now showing the signs of betrayal of the opposition cause.


Even if other opposition parties do not agree with CSJ methods, at the least they should come up with a joint press release to say that PAP should not be overbearing on an opposition party. They cannot even do that. What kind of opposition is this?

But I expect too much of them. We would be glad if they cease running CSJ down in the pretext of supporting him, as represented by the article written by Dr Wong.

Anonymous said...

The audio recording is so different from what we actually get to read on The Straits Times.

Miss Chee should never be jailed for her behaviour. It's absurd... she should be caned and hanged instead...

Thanks for sharing it.

Anonymous said...

The Chees should be exiled, they are pains in the asses of our most talented leaders.


Anonymous said...

Some interesting comments and observations here. The audio recording actually revealed much more than the ST articles did. And yes, I have started to reading the ST again.

It has become my daily amusement, sometimes I just burst out laughing reading the articles, especially the ass-licking ones by wanna-be MPs.Some of them are much more funnier than Lucky. Sorry lucky those guys are good - expecially their creativity in making the ERP fare hike seem like the biggest ati-inflation gift by the government and that people (and businesses) were actually cheering upon hearing of the hike.

I recommend that you guys read it too, and then go to the web for actual news. I just love the ST and I have my favourite comedians oops journalist as well. They just make my day..

best shop for your said...

This won't really have success, I believe this way.