Friday, April 17, 2009

Loansharking : PAP govt's brilliant solution

Times are bad and the number of loanshark harassment cases has climbed sharply. Police had to deal a total of 4000 cases in the first 3 months of this year. But don't worry our Home Affairs Minister has come up with a brilliant solution to reduce the number of cases our police have to handle:

"The ministry will also consider making borrowing from loansharks an offence."
- DPM Wong Kan Seng.[Link]
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"This would be good news for us. If the police arrest those who borrow, they won't dare to report us when we harass them," - Loanshark who welcomes the move[Link]
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If you still don't understand how brilliant this solution is, let me explain. The police has to handle so many cases of loansharking because the victims go to the police for help. By criminalising borrowing from loansharks, the victims of loanshark harassment now cannot go to the police for help because they themselves will be arrested for borrowing from the loansharks. The police will see a sharp drop in the number of cases and the govt can say the problem is solved! Briliant! Bravo! Now victims of loansharks have to suffer quietly. This will free up vast amounts of resources - there will be more police to handle those pesky opposition members and peaceful protestors who break our new our public order laws. I thought sending our old folks to JB was the best idea for the year -I was wrong.... this one is a lot more brilliant!

65 comments:

Onlooker said...

Wow MHA solve problem by punishing the people who were facing the problem.
Now wonder Mas Selamat can escape so easily for more than 1 year now.

Anonymous said...

hmm... filming an illegal event is criminalized, borrowing money from illegal loansharks may be made a criminal offense.. What's next? Maybe they'll penalize victims from rape, theft, murder.. etc in future.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of those Hong Kong period soaps where corrupt and lazy magisrates would whip a complainant first before he gets to present his case - for disturbing the magistrate. Sigh...

Anonymous said...

Brilliant idea indeed. Only the highest paid ministers in Singapore can come up with such brilliant ideas!

Anonymous said...

I liken this to "blaming female rape victims for dressing sexily" it is their fault and we should make it illegal for victims to dress sexily.

Onlooker said...

Worse FT(esp those with the dish washing talent) killing Locals Got reduced Sentence.
Soup Spoon. Remember.....

Anonymous said...

Everytime i see wong kan seng, it reminds me of mas selamet. Truely a very competant guy, manage the 'great escape'.... pushing the blame all the way down...

Anonymous said...

dont you envy ministers salary now?

not that they are better people. they just pay themselves well enough so they don't get into trouble with the laws they have brilliantly carved on stones for ....lesser imortals

just beat people up with laws and everything solved?

brilliant

John said...

Why not extend this superb idea to all cases?

Make everyone who makes a police report post a bond of $10k. It will be returned to the victim only when the perpetrator has been found guilty by the courts.

A more brilliant solution is to charge a fee for using law enforcement services. Want that robber caught? Pay $3k to the police. Want loanshark caught? Pay $5k. Can pay by CPF and installments also.

These solutions will reduce the official crime rates and make Singapore the safest city in the world!

Chee Wai Lee said...

Gotta be careful who you borrow money from next time ... later your friend betray you and say he is loanshark then you kenna sai.

Anonymous said...

As long as there is 50% walkovers, 66% mandate and 98% seats for PAP, you can expect even more brilliant solutions in future.

Not just from Wong Kan Seng but also other ministers to solve other problems.

Because the people and opposition are brilliant to give them this opportunity.

Or is it they are brilliant to make you people and opposition to do this?

Anonymous said...

Dr Ong Seh Hong who borrowed 60K (the equivalent of an annual pay of an ordinary Singaporean) from Ming Yi. He probably delayed the payment to the hospital until he knew he has been exposed by Ming Yi.

Bravo of Ming Yi to drag this greedy PAP MP into the dirt. He knew that the PAP wants to take over his hospital organization to service the lucrative healthcare tourism (same reason for Khaw to want to kick old Singaporeans out to JB).

Ming Yi should do the next best thing: to declare himself as a loanshark who cannot say 'NO' and kill this greedy MP Ong once and for all.

HanSolo said...

Had the impression that in the majority of these cases, the loansharks were harassing the wrong people?

They have this weird habit of identifying debtors not by name, but by their addresses.

Lim Chin Siong said...

Lets be honest.
Every time you see or hear about Wong Kan Seng, you DO NOT think of Mas Selamat.

You just think of the toilet bowl.

move along please said...

Every time I see WKS I'm reminded of Snow White and The Seven Dwarves. He's the one named Dopey.

I wish there was an eighth dwarf named Stupid Idiot. Then I'd pick him and save Dopey for Khaw Boon Wan.

Grrr!

skeptic said...

It is like curing the disease by killing the patient!

Anonymous said...

thanks for picking this up. i din think of this angle, the suggestion seemed innocuous enough.

gosh, i must be a simpleton. which makes me wonder, is the multi-millionair minister a simpleton or a hard hearted person oblivious to our plight?

Anonymous said...

Yo Lucky

Sinkees consistently rant against CSJ.
The one madman who dares speaks up.

Sinkees getting what they deserve no?

Anonymous said...

i think, hor, the gahmen think sinkies borrow $$$ only for fun e.g. buy air-con, buy handphone, go french cuisine holidays.

therefore to help us save money, they make it illegal to borrow lor. oso help police save some work.

watch out for 154th spin on why sinkies borrow money fr loan sharks

Anonymous said...

PREVIOUSLY:

Borrower: Please give me more time to pay up.

Loanshark: Pay up now or there'll be trouble for you !

Borrower: Better leave, or I'll call the police.

(Loanshark runs away)

NOW:

Borrower: Please give me more time to pay up.

Loanshark: Pay up now or I'll call the police !

(Borrower pays up immediately)

Anonymous said...

i have a good idea.

reduce the workload and most importantly make big money by imposing a service fee for calling the police. they can then employ more staffs to collect the fees; a brillant win-win idea, yes?

Anonymous said...

Making borrowing from loanshark illegal, I see.

What a clever way to free PAP from its responsibility to the society without finding out why more and more are resorting to this type of credit.

Better solution for Wong Kan Seng is since loansharks are doing a roaring business, lets beat them to it ... just like PAP beats illegal 4D operators hands down.

Well if you don't remember, in the 70's illegal 4D operators were rampant and PAP constantly raided them. Then a brilliant idea came to PAP, lets create state-run 4Ds betting franchises.

Now you can see them all around. And PAP and some critics are worried the IRs will bring a gambling scourge to Singapore.

Open ya eyes! For that matter, these 4D outlets partly or even largely explain why loanshark business is booming in Singapore.

So you see that's how PAP "resolved" the betting problem by making it legal, hehe. No wonder it is praised around the world for being such a great government.

So I am sure PAP with its brilliant advisers will come up with something like that.

The news already reported that permits have been issued to high interest money lenders when formerly such permits were refused.

PAP just have to impose a high licence fee or even get DBS into the same act to reap from this business and thus PAP will also have "resolved" this loanshark problem.

Hey in the US it was such high-interest loans through credit cards that did their economy in; here PAP might well think otherwise.

PAP golden loan said...

Simple but yet brilliant analysis by lucky ! lol

And perhaps PM,MM and SM should pool their wealth and start a scheme that provides loans to PAP MPs and grass-roots supporters. Their combined wealth should be more than 200M $ ! The other multi Million $ ministers can also contribute to make loans available to all PAP members. Such loans should be interest-free, repayable over 20 to 30 years and of course whilst serving party interests.
This is a lot better than having PAP members borrowing from monks or loansharks which is not good for PAP's image and it is perfectly LEEgal. lol

Anonymous said...

Whether or not it is a good idea depends on the composition of borrowers. Are they mostly irresponsible spenders/gamblers or genuinely needy people?

If it is the former, then I support criminalizing borrowers. As for the needy, once they borrow from loan sharks, it is very unlikely they will be able to repay. In fact, I would imagine the debt will grow because of the ridiculous interest rates (correct me if I am wrong). So, this source of borrowing should not be encouraged in order to prevent them from falling further into the pit.

However, for the needy, criminalizing them is no fair because loan sharks are probably their last resort.

So, if there is a way to separate the irresponsible ones from the needy, it would be great. Also, more thought has to go into how to prevent the needy from borrowing from loan sharks or helping them repay the sum.

As for existing borrowers, if it is possible, maybe they can decide on a cutting-off date, so only those who borrow after the implementation will be charged.

The only concern I have is that loan sharks may resort to trickery to trap people into borrowing because they have to keep their income channel alive.

Parka said...

I actually support the idea of making borrowing from loansharks an offenseJust recently, a neighbour of mine had his window poured with red paint. He claimed he lost his IC and it was used to make an illegal loan with the loansharks.

What have we here in this senario?

1. Vandalism
2. People not relating to the borrower suffering from the consequences
3. People related to the borrower suffering from the consequences

If I'm in charge of passing this law, I'll pass it instantly without blinking an eye.

About people suffering in silence? They are already suffering whether or not they report to the police.

How about preventing more people in the future suffering in silence?

Anonymous said...

there must be plenty of money to be made in the loansharking business.

then it is more reason for this greedy govt to catch these loansharks who have failed to declare their real source of income to Inland Revenue Dept.
afterall these buggers are the ones who are cash rich, right ?
just give better incentives to our SPF / men-in-blue. lol

Anonymous said...

Anon @10:49 and Parka ... exacta!

I have a better idea ... the police can help collect for a percentage of the fees.

The poor gets their loans!
Loansharks get their profits!
No vandalism!
MHA turns a profit and meet their KPIs!

thats what i call "win-win" :-)

Anonymous said...

"If I'm in charge of passing this law, I'll pass it instantly without blinking an eye." - Parka

No so fast, Parka, try the Resident Committee first.

Anonymous said...

In the US, there's all kind of money lending/borrowing business, such as payday loan. Just that in Singapore, the credit market's so tightly controlled that avenues for credit do not flourish aboveground, and you have to go underground sometimes, in times of need.

Parka wants to criminalize PAP MP Dr Ong Seh Hong without blinking his eye. He's on the same boat as me.

tiredman said...

Maybe MHA did not do enough research before releasing this news.

Drawing a decision tree will help to know possible decision that will be made by the people who is directly or indirectly involved.

This policy, I think it will make matter worse.
For example, if I am in deep shit and need money, what would I do? Borrow first then decide what to do next.

Next, if I do not report my ”crime”, there won’t be any case on me. I believe my family will not report loan sharks cases to the police because I will get into trouble. What’s next? Suffer in silence.(Just think that most families won’t want their members to put in jail.)

Lucky, by now the loan sharks must be celebrating!! There is no way or hardly a way the police can track them down without the borrower's family reporting it.
The loan sharks will just have to pick on the right family. I think this is obvious.

Lesser number of loan sharks case might just be an illusion. The number of loan sharks might increase. The only difference is, the cases are not recorded.
Nail down the loan sharks and eliminate them should be the only way to solve the problem.
Agree totally agree with lucky's post.

Anonymous said...

Tiredman said "Maybe MHA did not do enough research before releasing this news."

I am wondering if any research was carried out at all by the incompentent MHA ! PAP policies have time and time again proved they lack due diligence, and we are paying millions to these elite for doing what morons also can do !

Anonymous said...

similarly. set up casinos as stumbling blocks for people who want to bet for instant riches. but then, how do you deal with social problems that may arise from gambling?

the authorities have to decide...how to make more money and avoid being blamed for social problems

make money is still the government chief priority than social well being.

so same tactics. let people walk into these places of temptations. enact laws to punish people who failed to contain themselves and become social liabilities than use laws to slam them

in other words, for money, they'll tempt the people within the legal boundaries.

what they are saying is: i want to stroke your cock for money. but if you cock stand up, i am going to use the laws to cut off your cock.

Anonymous said...

this reminds me of another recent law from MHA.

There's been a rise in contraband cigarettes in singapore. So instead of better policing at the borders, they decided to mark every single cigarette in Singapore with the duty paid logo.

Citizens, well smoking ones, get punished, instead of working harder to to catch the smugglers.

Now we'll likely go into a slippery slope argument.. if borrowing money from loansharks is illegal, then we should then make everything that leads to debts illegal too eg addictive gamblers should be fined or jailed.

or every form of vice in our society should also be made illegal like alcoholism.

it must be the MHA - the same people who say that ONE person gathering can be deemed an illegal gathering.

absurd, absolutely absurd.

Hurray! said...

Wow, now I can sabotage anyone by scribbling their unit no. on the wall "O$P$ #-----", and then call the police saying that this person has borrowed from loansharks.

So instead of using their precious resources to catch real criminals i.e. loansharks, police now have to waste resources investigating innocent victims.

Maybe this is what they want because sitting ducks borrowers are easier to catch than elusive loansharks. They can justify their hefty salaries and bonuses by increasing the number of "solved cases".

Anonymous said...

Wow, now I can sabotage anyone by scribbling their unit no. on the wall "O$P$ #-----", and then call the police saying that this person has borrowed from loansharks.

Donch be so "aw sim" lah.

Anyway, who will be so "jia ba ka eng?"

Only those with a never ending axe to grind.

What if you get caught for sabotage? Will be joke of the year :D

Anonymous said...

"...if I am in deep shit and need money, what would I do? Borrow first then decide what to do next."

That is the most vulnerable state (desperation and panic) for the loan sharks to exploit and after that you might regret. Might be better for you to be stopped from falling into the pit.

"...if I do not report my ”crime”, there won’t be any case on me."

The loan sharks will use it to blackmail you to extort more until you tak boleh tahan and report yourself.

"Nail down the loan sharks and eliminate them should be the only way to solve the problem."

Definitely, this should be the priority. I believe making borrowing a criminal act in meant to be supplementary.

Anonymous said...

And it will only get worse when the IR open kopishop.
All the loanshark will flock under their skirt.

Anonymous said...

Btw, Lucky, are you going to write about this editor who got off from killing (due to dangerous driving, she was talking on the phone while driving)?

some more, the learned judge said this was to be a "one-off" sentence, not to be used as precedent.

got such thing one meh? seems like one rule for elites, one for peasants.

Anonymous said...

to people who support this idea feeling that irresponsible people should not be saved:

what if u borrow ah long and ur daughter or wife was forced to or out of love sell herself secretly help u pay off ur debt???

don't be too quick to condemn other people ok?
the fact that many people actually support it shows singaporeans really have no compassion.

Anonymous said...

Just got this feeling that everything the people in SIN does will become offence against the State one day !

Anonymous said...

Lucky, you called this brilliant solution? Pls take a look at this video clip :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLBJ8ZCnhc. If you were right Ah Nan can be our cabinet minister.

Anonymous said...

LUCKY,

This has been happening for a very long time;

Under the Act, if the Ministries send you a bill for $XXXXXXXXX dollars, you have to prove to them why you didn't owe the money. HOW TO?

If the Income Tax Department revalue your property, or claim you made a few millions last year when you did not, you have to pay first and argue later. You have stashed funds?

Where to get the money to pay first? borrow from the loanshark?

If you do not want your organs and skin remove from your temporary diabled body, you better opt out.
Criteria for confirming brain dead,
1. your pupil does not response to light (temporary lose of eyesight pengsa).
2. your fingers does not response to needle pricking (temporary paralysis pengsa).
3. 2 doctors confirms you are brain dead (pengsa if some politician/millionaire has matching requirements).

Where are all the modern equpments?

The passport of the Pathetic Singaporean is the only valuable and useful object of being a Pathetic Singaporean!!

Anonymous said...

"what if u borrow ah long and ur daughter or wife was forced to or out of love sell herself secretly help u pay off ur debt???"

It is your irresponsibility that causes your wife's or daughter's "suffering" and you blame others for being heartless?

No wonder they have to criminalize borrowing - some people just do not have conscience and they expect everyone else to tolerate that (including being victims of ah long's debt collection tactics when you do not pay up and waste of police resources that can be deployed for better uses).

Anonymous said...

"I am wondering if any research was carried out at all by the incompentent MHA !"

They purposely don't do it, throw the idea around and let netizens/citizens debate and do research for them?

Because they have no idea?

Anonymous said...

the way i see it: the main reason is to protect innocent pple who are harassed by the loansharks when real borrowers clear out of the old place. however even with the new law, the loan sharks will still continue to harass the new owners what.

the question is why polic cannot catch these loan sharks - why are they so elusive even when security cameras are installed by the new owners? the police shld tell us.

the other angle we can do, is for hdb or relevant authorities to keep new owners advised of the new hdb address of the real borrowers. this transparency is only fair, not just in the case of loan shark harrassment. it also helps if there is a hidden defect in the unit for which the previous owner is accountable for.

if you ask me, the real reason why wks wants this is because of the coming ir. they anticipate a lot of social problems, and they simply want to wash their hands of it. this is "you die, you business" - the same strategy in healthcare, housing and law and order.

DanielXX said...

I got a better solution lah.

Death penalty for loan sharks.

Guarantee all the wannabes will be shocked out of the business. The die-hards maybe will switch to smuggling drugs since they figure both will get death anyway. Pronto, problem solved.

Ghost said...

Actually I don't see what's wrong with making borrowing from loansharks an offense. If providing an illegal loan is an offense, why shouldn't taking the illegal loan be an offense as well? For those people afraid of this new law, here's a simple solution: Don't take money from loansharks.

Anonymous said...

"If providing an illegal loan is an offense, why shouldn't taking the illegal loan be an offense as well?"

You may make anything illegal and there are always good selective logics to back up the sanctions if you care to find.

Likewise for those in dire straits who may not qualify for legal loans from financial institutions, there are also good logics to resort to loansharks.

Once problem exists, it will start to spread and flow to a solution of least resistance until it finds a breaking point when blocked and it becomes real social problem which utimately will flow back to society at large, not only in monetary terms from welfare help but also in serious social interactions among family members, friends, the state if the situation is critical big.

tiredman said...

Ghost,

Law is already not a law when both parties simultaneously decide to keep quiet about breaking that law.
By keeping quiet does not mean that the problem doesn't exist.

I believe this law is only helpful to solve problem of loansharks attacking the wrong group of people.

Anonymous said...

GHOST,

Very soon, you will need to pay $100 to make a police report, or maybe for just visiting the police station.
+ GST too

Remember, if all everyone is drawing salaries of $1 million plus like our millionaire ministers, the loansharks would have moved to Johor Bahru.

Dr Ong Seh Hong PAP MP who borrowed 60K from Ming Yi, the reason why Loanshark should exist to counter the licensed loanshark (credit card companies)

Anonymous said...

I do believe that the only reason why Minister Wong KS had been made DPM is because he is part of the Lee Clan.

It seems that he is the cousin in law of PM Lee.

This whole thing is truly out of control in Singapore,but who cares and how many know the implication?

This is a very sad little dot which pretents to be first world,and made many foreigners /local sincerely believe so.


http://www.littlespeck.com/content/politics/CTrendsPolitics-090328.htm
Only four months ago, in December last year, Mr. Wong who is related to the influential Lee family, was re-elected the party's 1st Asst Sec-General, second highest position next to Hsien Loong (who is Secretary-General

yamizi said...

I am only concern that if this law is really passed, then the people who take loan from the loansharks may turn out to take the law into their own hands.

A lot of violence may happen underground between the debtors and creditors.

Hmm.

Anonymous said...

well, who cares really? You think PAP cares?

'You DIE your business' is their Motto.

Ghost said...

I fail to see what's selective about making this an offense as well. When police raid a gambling den, both the operators and the gamblers are all charged. Why shouldn't this be the same case here? By charging the loansharks but allowing the lenders to get away scot free (as it is now), that's selective.

Anonymous said...

to ghost

there is a difference. when you lend at an exorbitant rate, it is exploitatory. it is reasonable to assume that the borrower, knowing that it is very expensive, borrows only becos there is a pressing need. (e.g. medical fees, business woes).

the lender, on the other hand, is exploiting the vulnerability of the situation.

if you want to bring up an analogy, it's more like sex with under-aged persons. one victim, one offender.

another way to look at it, if the borrower needs money, and a friend lends out of kindness, surely both should not be charged.

if the gahmen is truly interested to clamp down loan shark business, then go catch some loan sharks and pass some deterrence sentence.

to pass the buck to the borrowers, that is irresponsible and third-world strategy.

Anonymous said...

Ghost of course you have a good point and there is no end to the debate if we keep talking about whether the proposed law is good or bad.

I see that proposed policy more as a reaction of a social problem than a solution. Now if more and more people are borrowing from loansharks and unable to pay up, then what are the causes? Did PAP bother to find out and tackle them?

Could it be that more and more people are out of job, or that retired people are finding that their CPF savings are not sufficient or cannot be withdrawn until 65, or that there are simply too many 4D outlets tempting people into gambling resulting debts, that there is insufficient social welfare?

Every problem has a cause or causes but PAP as the government does'nt seem to care now. It just want to treat the effects hence it comes out with this so-called solution.

Is this what the PAP is only good for?

Anonymous said...

just to add:

when was the last time a loan shark was hauled to court and given an appropriate sentence?

the last case I cld remember was this guy who was given excessive strokes of the cane (thanks to "first-world" administrative lapse). he served his jail sentence and was promptly back on the streets running businese for loan sharks.

we shld ask: was the previous sentence sufficient to deter such devious money-making intentions? was the newer sentence sufficient? were the loan sharks this kah-gia claimed to be working for, ever brought to justice?

there you are, a glimpse of the result sheet of SPF.

Anonymous said...

Another way it to pass a law that loanshark activities will be punishable by death. This will solve all the problem and KBW probably can harvest organ off those dead people lol. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Anonymous said...

Good idea. probably Mr Wong Kan Seng will be shopping for a longer Ku Ku Cheow to harvest from. Guess Khaw will get FAT bonus for that.

Anonymous said...

Ask PAP Govt why it's easier to borrow $ from loanshark?

After renaming "Police Academy" to "HomeTeam Academy", we produce more "football players" now than "police officers"...

WKS is just another "Team Leader" but the only diff is WKS is highly paid than ex-STTA head coach, Liu.

WKS should be awarded the "Best Team Leader of the Year" for the "Great Escape" he had given us last year!

Athos said...

LuckySingaporean's point of view, as I understand it to be is:

1)Desperate borrows from loanshark,

2)Loanshark harrases Desperate for either late payment or not fulfilling the contracted sum (Whether he doesn't have the money or he refuses to pay, either way he's failed to pay)

3)Desperate wants to go to the police but can't, because of the new law that has just been imposed.

4)Caught between the law and the loansharks, Desperate become well...more desperate, or should I say pathetic, meanwhile, his neighbours are also affected, and they too are growing desperate.

Now, I'm not a unsympathetic person, but the first thing I noted when I looked at that equation, was that, Desperate FAILED to pay! Loansharks are businessmen, as unsavoury as they are. They think of profit, first and foremost. Now, the current situation as it is, is that:

1)Desperate borrows from loanshark,

2)Loanshark harrases Desperate for either late payment or not fulfilling the contracted sum (Whether he doesn't have the money or he refuses to pay, either way he's failed to pay)

3)Desperate makes a police report and has the loansharks arrested.

Not that I'm supportive of criminal acts, but it seems to me, that the true injustice the scenario depicted above, is that the loanshark didn't get paid, and got arrested for collecting what was rightfully his. In a way, Desperate stole from him!

I understand that the loanshark is exploiting the vulnerability of Desperate's situation, however, I don't see the point of a loanshark lending money to someone who can't pay back. Therefore I think that Desperate is in turn exploiting the loansharks.

I would agree that the problem has to be solved at the root, which is..."Why is Desperate desperate?"

However, before we can address that, shouldn't we also consider the principle behind borrowing money in the first place?

By making such loans illegal, people would then be forced to look for alternative channels to solve their problems.

Perhaps it is as annonymous said:

"I see that proposed policy more as a reaction of a social problem than a solution."

However, before such reforms can take place, that would solve the problem permenantly, should there not be in place an alternative method to solve the current predicament?

The problem as I see it is:

People are desperate or are in debt, they need money.

The obvious solution is:

Give the people money.

Therefore I would propose that a new loan scheme be set up by the government to aid these people, with lower requirements, to prevent people from going to the loansharks. The scheme should have low interest and a controlled sum to be lent, depending on the person's salary. I know that these people may have various reasons for not wanting to go to banks for the money, therefore I would also add to the proposed scheme that the government has to be fair and sympathetic to all that approach them, and those who have commited wrong, well...have to pay for their crimes.

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