Wednesday, May 06, 2009

Boy arrested for slamming chair at MP Office!

FURTHER UPDATE: "There is a clear line between being frustrated or disappointed and being violent. The thrown chair could have killed somebody." - Minister Lim Hwee Hwa on why she rejected the written apology of the 17 year old boy. I've never heard of someone killed by an aluminium chair and anyone trying to kill someone by slamming it onto a door. But Minister Lim is not letting these people way to her they are a real danger and have to be contained by the full force of the law.

UPDATE: The 17 year old boy will be charged in court on 12 May 2009 (Tuesday). He is now out on bail. I was thinking if it happened somewhere else and the police were called, would they even bother to turn up. The "rash act" law is very interesting. In this case the boy took an aluminium chair and slam it on the glass door. As I understand from the reports, the door is still intact and nobody was injured....yet there are grounds to charge the boy. "Physically showing anger " is against the law in Singapore especially if you're in an MP's office. Insulting a public servant is also a crime....the law is heavily stacked against people with short temper but don't hurt others physically. It is sad that we still need these laws after all the courtesy campaigns, smile campaigns and kindness campaign....yeah I remember we are still in Kindness Month(?)...yes Cynthia Phua was motherly but was she kind to the mother and child...were the grassroots leaders kind to call the police and have him arrested...and was MP Lim or Phua kind not to stop them.
A 17 year-old-boy was arrested by the police for slamming a chair against a glass door at a meet-the-people session at Serangoon North. This happened after the boy and his mom walked out of MP Cynthia Phua's office. It is not clear what transpired in the office to trigger such rage but in an interview with the New Paper, the mother said that Cynthia Phua had asked her son a series of questions : "Who are you? What are you doing? Why are you not working?". The mother explained that she wanted to answer the questions but was not given a chance. The mother and son said that they felt like they were "being scolded". The mother was working as a cleaner at $400 a month salary (Singapore has no minimum wage laws) and lost her income when she broke her wrist fixing a ceiling fan. As there is no comprehensive safety net in Singapore she had to go to the MP office wait in line for help. She goes to the MP office every month for financial aid. In this MPS, she had defaulted on her HDB loan and HDB threatens to repossess the flat and give her a rental unit but she cannot afford the $138 rental deposit & stamp duty. She was at the MP office to get MP Phua's signature for an appeal letter. Although the request was granted, the mother and son said they walked out of the office feeling like they have been put down.

"I had to ask some pointed questions about his employment status to understand the root cause of the problem, so that I can be more effective in helping them" - Cynthia Phua
I thought that the root cause of the problem is the govt opening the floodgates for foreign workers to depressed the wages of our low income workers and the refusal to set a minimum wage. ...may be Cynthia should be asking her own party pointed questions instead.
"From what I understand, Madam Phua was being very motherly and very helpful inside the room with them" - MP Lim Hwee Hua
According to the New Paper, the 17 year old boy has low IQ and suffers from thalassermia which renders him weak and sickly. He may be charged in court for "committing a rash act" which carries a fine of up to $2500 and a jail term of up to 6 months.
I wonder what we gain out of making needy people in our society seek aid this way : cutting it into small little pieces and making poor people go all over the place to make multiple requests from many different agencies. Isn't it clear that a woman making $400 a month with a sick kid will need help with housing, utilities, medical care and food the moment she loses her job? So she is made to 'tackle' the HDB which threatens to take her flat, Singapore Power which cuts her utilities, go apply for medical aid separately when she is sick and visits the MP for piecemeal financial help every month. Maybe the govt believes that putting obstacles to help can make being poor so painful people are motivated to get rich - not working lah, the number of poor people have been growing year after year. For a govt that prides itself for being efficient, they have the most inefficient way of helping the poor euphemistically called the "many helping hands" is more like "the many obstacles" approach.
You would think a govt that pursued policies that resulted in the biggest income gap among east asian economies - by opening the floodgates to cheap foreign labor, regressive taxation such as GST, and allowing state owned monopolies to increase profits by raising prices for transport, utilities etc - would feel responsible for increase in number of people who cannot cope with rising prices and falling wages. Hong Kong has a comprehsive social safety net, Taiwan has universal healthcare...and poor Singaporeans continue to struggle because its govt cannot overcome its own ideological barriers and doesn't want to fix a problem that it has caused.


Anonymous said...

typical of her style.

Anonymous said...

Probably going into the slammer unless he is some newspaper editor that can get off with 1 day of slammer and peanuts fine for killing someone.

Anonymous said...

Your average MP holds high-paying full-time job, and a handful of directorships. Not to mention their PART-TIME job as your MP, which pays handsomely also.

You expect your MP to not sneer at our destitute?

If you look carefully, our MPs jobs are not threatened by cheap foreign talents, unlike the majority of us.

We can lose hundreds of billions of dollars without hesitation, and still give Public Service Awards to those responsible. And in the same breath, we are extremely stingy with helping our poor with a couple of hundred bucks each month.

Singapore truly deserves the goverment they voted in.

Anonymous said...

How to get votes from different segments of the population?

- the rich, make them richer, give their sons scholarships, let them have access to the best luxuries in the world.

- the middle class, let them aspire to be the rich.

- the poor, hook them on a perpetual life support system consisting of subsistence level wages and piecemeal handouts.

Anonymous said...

Now we know why the survey showed that people will not turn to the government for help. They are down and out but do not want to be humiliated by the demi-gods

Anonymous said...

giving from your wealth is easy but you can't solve the problems of the destitute by helping them to tie over another day. for all you know, the next day maybe their unlucky day.

also, teaching them to fish do not guarantee a lifetime supply of fishes either. there are simply too many besetting factors against average people for any of the rulers' social and economic programs to work anyway.

the only solution, i can think of, is not a popular solution with the elite.

so maybe madame thio can employ her prophetic and intercessory gifts to alleviate the plight of the poor.

who knows, gold may fall from the heavens.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Denise Phua mentioned about the weaknesses of the many helping hands approach and wastefulness of the system.

Apparently PAP still find no need to tighten up the system, and we still get people confused - CDAC / Mendaki / CCC / temples etc etc.

More PAP should speak up to get them to clean up their act.

Anonymous said...

It seems that MPs are having a hard time,but the question is are they ready for the MP job which is hard-to help poor people in a country which has the highest income disparity in the developed world and may be even almost the whole world,including third and fourth world.

I dont think PAP has the wish nor the ability to reduce the income disparity which is partially their own making,so the soln ought to be to select the right MPs which are very keen to serve,to listen to sad stories days after days,not yr average scholars or elites,I think.

Anonymous said...

I think public will avoid going to see the MP nowadays, since they are so phobic of the general public. Next thing you know accidental sneezing at your MP is liable for criminal charges since you might be spreading H1N1 virus to him/her endangering them in serving the people.

Anonymous said...

or could it be that all these various ways is just simply the govt's way of wanting us to depend on our wits, rather than turn to govt for help?

what i can say is that, if the govt or MPs dont want to help, could it be a time for the opposition MPs to come forward and help?

could it be a time for religious organisations to step up and help?

could it be a time for civil societies to come and help?

Onlooker said...

Wolf in sheep skin. She is the typical PAPer MP who can't survive in the real economic environment without her connections.

How could the people have elected someone like her into parliament in the first place.Her attitude is just like SHT.Where have the system gone wrong?
Oh wait GRC....

Well, when you get position fillers thru quantity you will not necessary get quality.

But seriously, how come this type of people can become MP.This type of MP for more good year huh?

Anonymous said...

Having a minimum wage, having a dole system, taking care of the downtrodden... these are all very noble ideas. However, this is the real world. If the government decides to feed someone, someone else has to pay for that food. Guess who that someone else would have to be?

Would you prefer to be taxed more heavily than you already are so that we can have social security?

And please let no-one argue that the government should magically manifest the necessary monies for such a system. That's so patently asinine it doesn't even bear refutation.

As for paying ministers less so that there would be more for the people... well, sure. That might work. But how much do you think social services cost? Do you really think all the ministers' salaries combined would make any sort of dent in the national expenditure? Well, let's find out.

2. (sorry, can't find a better source at short notice)

In 2008, the total government expenditure was $28,590.3M. If the information on the YCT site is correct and up-to-date, the total salary drawn by his top 30 was $75.8M (assuming $1.8M for ministers 23-30). Pulling out the calculator, we see that we could have saved 0.276% of our 2008 expenditure if we'd made all these ministers work for free.

Whoopee. We should pay them very little despite how that would have no visible direct effect on national spending. And let's not worry about underpaid politicians stealing from the state's coffers either because that just cannot happen in this perfect La La Land we live in.

Well, if anyone out there feels so very strongly about taking care of the poor, feel free to donate every last spare cent you have to worthy charities. No-one's unselfish enough to do that, yes?

Don't get me wrong. I am not against supporting those who cannot support themselves. However, if there is no strict screening process to categorise the deserving apart from the dishonest, we're sunk.

How much the ministers are paid is an entirely different (non)issue. Actually, if anything, the government's problem is effective communication with the people. Or maybe the average person just isn't bright or rational or honest enough to listen anyway.

No, I'm not in government employment. Never have been (barring NS), not likely to ever be. Not a particular fan of the PAP either. I'm just rational and logical.

lazylizard said...

the feeling the MP is getting when she sees a poor singaporean is like that of a singaporean who see the aftermath of typhoon in burma. a bit dislocated, don't know exactly what it means. when u can buy a new 42in tv and the price is spare change to u, u have no idea what it means to live on $400 a month. at all.

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Singaporean asked President, Minister Mentor, Senior Minister, Prime Minister, Ministers, Senior Ministers of State, Minister of State, MPS, etc pointed questions about their high Salaries at the expense of TAXPAYERS when they cast their vote.

Simply, those Pathetic Singaporean are no better than the LOW IQ youth. Sickly, dim and not worth the effort for assistance.

Singaporean Deserved to be overrun by Foreigners who are now running our Government.

Anonymous said...

Hey Lucky

Whats this nonsense?
Where's the Christian bashing?
We want them to crawl to us for protection!

Liberal Opposition = Anti-Christian + Gay Champions + Hooligans

PAP = mature + reliable + fair!

Please refer to the template from my minion anon @1:58 for social issues. The People are stupid! Confuse them with unrelated statistics. They will believe anything.

Dun disappoint me again!

Your Mentor From PAP

Dan said...

How about all the monies that was lost in investments? They could have been used to help all these people.

Anonymous said...

"You die your business
Kenasai your business
We don't need you to tell us what to do" - mr brown sang it best

Anonymous said...

Chao chee bye Cynthia Phua and Lim Hwee Hua need to be taught a lesson.

These PAP people are more than happy to look at their bank account book than to help or safe-guard the interests of the common people in their ward.

Pointed questions at the poor and low educated, how nice.

Anonymous said...

Why is it so very coincidential that ALL "attackers" of MPs (the one who set fire, the one who made threat calls, and now this)are ALL classified as having some short of mental sickness by the MSM???

Why such extensive coverup?

Anonymous said...

MP are people that the peasant look for help. But remember we are only lesser mortal! We do not deserve MP help. Period.

No need to tax said...

anon 1:58,
The PAP govt has already collected more than enough tax - most of them in disguised form such as inflated HDB flat prices, forced CPF savings at low interest rate etc - such that it can afford to lose in excess of $100,000,000 (one hundred BILLION) and still have several hundred BILLION left in the reserves. In fact, Singapore has the highest foreign reserves per capita in the world and the highest savings in the world (savings = govt "save" the money in foreign reserves etc instead of spending it on the people) - both of these are objective stats that can be verified easily. Thus the govt does NOT need to tax you more in order to provide more welfare. All it needs is to spend more instead of hoarding the money in foreign reserves and/or throw the money away to foreign banks.

If I have collected $1000 from you and give you back only $1, am I justified to collect another $1000 from you to give you back $1 more?

This whole idea of need-to-tax-more is a myth! Singaporeans have been taxed more than enough. By the way, 2 years of NS is cheap labour and yet another form of disguised tax. Do you know how much the govt has to pay a regular cook/ driver/ officer etc compared to paying an NSF even though both perform the same job?

Alan Wong said...

If you approach our Minister Vivian for help, the first question he will ask you will be "Are you going to have your meal at the hawker centre, food court or restaurant ?"

If you approach our MP Denise Phua, she will first ask you why are you or your son not working ?

When our Ministers want to be paid millions in annual salaries, how come they never explain where they are going to have their 3 meals ?

In heaven ?

Anonymous said...

What do MPs normally ask at when you see them? Thought there are volunteers who will be all the asking?

Anonymous said...

Looks like there's going to be more and more and more restrictions when meeting with MPs.

No lighters allowed
Cannot speak through telephone
Now, cannot have foldable chairs

Anonymous said...

Throw chair? Threaten MP? Get them arrested and charge them in court!

Next please. Need to close session by midnight.

Anonymous said...

Is she on page 74 on the "High and mighty" weekly magazine???

Anonymous said...

The PAP are so full of themselves. Have they wondered why they are in power the first place? The ordinary voted them in, yet now, that is how they treated the ordinary people who need help? What kind of leadership are they projecting? Seems that in Singapore, the PAP has developed "you die that your business" attitude.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:58pm, your reply is neither rational nor logical.

First, Singapore has a very low direct taxation system, compared to Europe or USA. Yes, we are overcharged in terms of housing, rent, GST and public utilities. But certainly not taxes.

Next, if you are so unwilling to help your fellow man, just say so, instead of hiding behind "logical" arguments.

Ultimately, we all have to pay. You either pay more and help the poor through more taxes, or you pay more when you get robbed by a poor man who is turning desperate. And please, kindly not say that robbery is wrong. Remember that a hungry man is an angry man. Go debate with a fella who decides to rob you because he is poor and there is no help for him and his family.

The unhappiness about the ministers pay is not about the amount, but rather are your ministers worth that much in the first place. Overpaying the ministers gives them a false sense of entitlement (guess where all those money for paying the overpaid ministers come from?). Also, overpaying your ministers ensures that they are compliant, not honest. Not to mention that overpaying your ministers usually make them completely indifferent to the needs of the poor.

Remember, not a single million-dollar minister complained that Ho Ching lost billions of dollars and still got a Public Service Award. On the other hand, the ministers are amongst the first to stop any move to give better social security benefits to the poor.

Anonymous said...

This is so weird. A boy slams a chair into a glass door, and he gets arrested.

I routinely read of students who hit their teachers or bus drivers. They don't get arrested.

Instead, they get "counselled", be made to read a public apology while putting up an act of feeling sorry for their actions. And case is closed.

What's so special about that glass door that warrants a boy's arrest for hitting it?

Alexis de Tocqueville said...

can't you just vote the PAP out at the next election? Why do singaporeans continue to vote for this elite?

Anonymous said...

That's for not showing respect to your "motherly" elders...sigh

Anonymous said...

Coming soon...squatting to meet your fatherly/motherly/brotherly/sisterly MPs....'cos chairs banned liao.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:58 PM is quite mistaken that our income tax is very low compared to welfare state.

This is a total illusion. What we know as CPF contribution represents a form of income tax except it is a non-collectivized saving system.

At 55 you only withdraw a partial sum. After that, at 64, 65 and eventually at 69, if my memory serves me correctly, you gonna withdraw it in partial monthly payout.

In the welfare state people are highly taxed. But our CPF contribution rate, with employer's contribution taken in, is up to over 30%. Is that really low, even putting aside any income tax you may also need to pay.

In the welfare state you are assured of dole if you are out of job and in old age plus healthcare are being looked after by the state.

Now in Singapore the govt already tells us many S'poreans do not have enough CPF savings for their old age.

Whatever happen to PAP boast that the CPF system is better than state welfarism. Sure it is better in PAP's interests but not for our people.

And because of non-collectivized CPF savings, some individuals are and will continue to be left out in the cold. More and more will suffer terribly under this system.

So which is the better system: state welfare or CPF system which had misled you into thinking our income tax is so low?

The CPF system should have been an insurance scheme which pays much better but that's not in PAP scheme of things.

PAP prefers to obscenely feed its fat-cat elite that it has placed in top positions in the GLCs, organisations which are to a large extent funded by CPF savings of the people, never mind these GLCs have been making great losses if only their performance over the last 1 year is considered.

Another point Anon 1:58 brought out is that the total amount paid to the Cabinet is such a small fraction of our GDP.

Well, he forgot that when ministers get $millions salary the top grade bureaucrats also have their salary scales raised to match up.

Have you got any idea how much goes into the pockets of these people. Does PAP tell you?

I do know that heads of depts/organisations can get up to 7 or 8 months of performances bonus on top of regular bonus. For CapitaLand CEO that alone came to $20 millions for 2007. LINKLook it is system has gone astray because there is utterly no check and balance on what PAP wants to do.

So dear Anon 1:58, before you are too happy you are paying so little income tax, can you be sure by the time you retire, the large part of your CPF savings will still be there for you to withdraw?

If the GLCs have been squandering the money, the PAP will just come up with more patchwork rules that effectively lock up the major portion of your CPF (assuming the money is still there) and like your Medisave will never be withdrawn but passed over to the next generation.

pumpkin said...

Arrested for slamming chair at MP's office? Why go to such an extreme to "educate" the people?
How can one show displeasure to MPs for the poor or no service provided. Cannot burn them, cannot shout at them and cannot slam chair or slam door!

Anonymous said...

Only one WORD: SAD.

Anonymous said...

I don't see how by sending the already low IQ boy to jail is helping and a hefty $2,500 fine is going to aid the mother cope with life and she's drawing a meagre pay of $400. Sure, she's been helpful.

Anonymous said...

$2500 is 6 months of the mother's pay, and barely 1 day pay for our PM.

We are so stingy with paying our locals, but very generous in paying all the dead-weights in public office.

In the PM's office, we have 1 mentor minister, 2 senior ministers, 2 deputy prime ministers and 1 minister-without-portfolio.

If you look carefully, you would realize these 6 millionaire ministers all do not have specific portfolios.

Why can we afford to keep these 6 deadweights, and yet cannot afford to pay more in welfare to help the less fortunate?

This is fair?

Anonymous said...

Why is it that anyone who attacked the MP is decribed by the media as either low IQ or IMH cases?

Is it not possible that the high-handed style of the MPs pushes rational but desperate people over the wall?

perhaps the headline won't go down too well with " intelligent resident provoked by innate MP to throw chair", will it?

Anonymous said...

Singapore is a great place if you are upper-class, rich and a member of the ruling elite. Tough-luck if you are from the middle-class and below. Anon 1.58 is a textbook example of a person who has taken in all of the PAP's rhetoric about the EVILS of welfare and minimum wage.

Countries like Taiwan, Canada, Australia and Denmark that have legislated minimum wages are still perfectly fine. Contrary to what some people would like to believe, welfare and minimum wage will not destroy a country. Corrupt politicans are the ones who do.

Anonymous said...

The establishment is systematically carrying out measures to rid itself off the lesser mortals. They even run a poll to conclude that majority of Singaporeans do not need their help.

They are finding it hard to provide at the moment due to their heavy losses and continued provisions for hefty defence bills, R&D bills,Sports sponsorships, scholarships and all sorts of "bigger than thy" useless programmes.

Anonymous said...

would the poor weak kid stand a chance against the court?

I feel so bad for this kid, I kinda wanna weep.

Anonymous said...

The mother is destitute, and she is still expected to cough up money for the son's legal fees???

What is our system coming to, when right and wrong is determined heavily by one's ability afford legal fees?

Anonymous said...

Next time showing a "black face" at an MP will also be considered a crime.

Slowly they will scare off people who need aid from seeking their MP, and like magic there will be no more poor people in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Very, very sad that terrible incidents between the people and Members of Parliament are recurring.

Are the people driven to the wall by the leaders ?


Anonymous said...

This is how our world's highest paid government solve problems:

Unemployment rate high? - remove those who have been unemployed for more than a year from the job statistics.

Foreigners taking up all the new jobs? - lump foreigners, PRs, and Singaporeans together in the job statistics.

Singaporeans angry at government for giving arrogant, holier than thou help? - jail everyone who vent their anger, even when no one is hurt.

Crime statistics going up - make beating up one another a civil matter.

hp said...

my heart goes out to the boy. How many teenager boys (yes Boys) would accompany their mothers to appeal for help.... ...most will probably not even want to be seen doing this. If I was the boy, I would already be frustrated/helpless bcos of the family's situation but to have someone (high up there) to suggest that I am the "root" cause of the problem in my greatest moment of need.... is going to hurt and scar for a really long time. Well done Mother Cynthia! U just destroy a teenagers' life.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the poor boy and the mother can afford the fine. Probably end up in Jail. The rage and insult from the MP is certainly a no no in our society. Citizen put their faith on the Government and ended up been screwed. Police has to up lift the justices, nevertheless, unless the society is united as one, there can be no change and suffering from the mental jail shall persist.

Anonymous said...

Hello people, this is Singapore. You all like to talk so much ar. The police will tell you they have mercy on the boy already, charge him "committing rash act". If they charge him under "Vandalism" than you know, kena cane some more!

Time to quit!

Anonymous said...

I will be seeking my MP's help. No choice lah...need the handouts.

Any SOP, like prostrating before the MP and his advisers? I have been watching movies depicting how peasants in the Qing dynasty prostrate before the Qing officials. Should come in handy...

tiredman said...

In anyway, Singaporeans can never be gracious.

Sometime ago, I was watching a video on late economist, Milton Friedman on U-tube. He insisted that America was using the poor to fund the rich's education programme. Fortunately, after watch the video clip, I do agree with him.

In such a free and democratic country, work can be deviated from the right path.

I am not surprise to see why our rich MP who is performing a public service finds hard to put up with poor people.

MP can never be the people's MP when that MP in the first place does not have a heart to serve the people.(serve for money??) The root of the problem is MPs may be too rich to understand the poor.

Individual with super good grades on their papers does not mean one is good in performing public services. Perhaps, this is one good example.

someone sad for singapore said...

dear lucky,

I wish to start a blog of my own, talking about singapore and I'd wish to be your affiliate.

I'm so sick and tired of Singapore, even though I have lived in Australia for the past 6 years.

Could you at least please give me an email or something so that I could contact you in private?

If you think that I'm from the so-called PAP internet brigade, you could at least tell me that you do not wish to have a part in my new blog here or something, just to let me know that you're not interested.


someone sad for singapore

PS: keep your blog up, its one of the only sites that I read frequently from here, not one of the big cities, in Australia.

Anonymous said...

don't worry, elections coming soon. after a few more days, phua will 'graciously' forgive the boy and earn brownie points for the pappys

Anonymous said...

Some people can really cover up their own selfishness with big words like rational nor logical.

Maybe I have better upbringing as I remember being taught that I should help those in need if I can afford to.

So what if we the better off have to pay more so that the less fortunate could get help? Isn't this what make us human being more superior in spirit compare to animals?

Some more it is not as if our treasury are in sorry state that can't take in more stress. Anyone remember how much sulpurs we have after the GST increase? And how much billions our elite have lose so far?

Not to mention as someone already brought up, there are actually many 'hidden tax' that are already driven Sinkaporeans dry.

Anonymous said...

I find it strange that the MP will ask the boy whether he is working. The correct question should be whether he is studying. If not, why is he not studying?

The next question is why is he not enlisted for NS.

This is a typical 17 yrs old boy in Singapore. So out of touch.

Anonymous said...

Lucky My Boy

Good news!
Higher ups have expressed their approval that the stupids' attention were diverted from Golden Boy Vivian & Shortie Horse towards expendables like that Phua ... whats-her-name again?

Keep up the good work! Our agents at ST are sleeping on the job. Again. That job could be yours soon. *wink*

Your Proud Mentor

Anonymous said...

has anybody checked out her video on youtube where she was lecturing singaporeans to wash hands etc etc in the aftermath of geylang serai poisoning?

based on this video, i wonder if the court will pass a reduced sentence to the poor boy since there was an element of "sudden and grave provocation" on her part.


Anonymous said...

@ your proud mental, er mentor

You are so funny, LOL

Anonymous said...

what happened to the 2% GST increase to help the poor promised by our prime minister?

Stop the red tape. Make it a default to give back 2% to the poor and needy. $400 a month in Singapore? What have you done to deserve your millions?

My suggestion is use the 2% to pay for all the utilities and rental. This will help them directly and the queue to meet the MP will be shorten.

Anonymous said...

The Boy is described as of low IQ and is suffering from Thalassemia(blood disorder). His mother is a menial worker earning a very meagre income of $400 a month.

In view of the above, it might be a blessing that both get themselves into prison. At least lodging, food and hopefully medications, education and vocational training will be available for the Boy.

The Boy will be awarded Yellow Ribbon and be introduced to employers on discharge. There could be positive development for this case. I am seeing it from the positive angle.


Anonymous said...

Arrogance, talking down in a condescending manner to the poor...

If these PAP ministers feel they are just too damn f good to be serving the peasants from whom their big fat salaries are leegally plundered from, they should jolly well go find another country where only wealthy elites roam and where there are NO poor people.

Oh btw where's the money from the 2% GST increase last year? Wasn't it supposed to 'help the poor'? Or did it go to help line pockets of condescending b*tches like Cynthia Phua?

Alan Wong said...

Our Shit Times took the trouble to emphasize that the kid was seen previously wearing trendy clothes, had nail polish & dyed hair.

Is this a case of the staff trying to tarnish the poor family so that people would have a poor opinion of this lazy family?

May I ask the reporter was there proof of such facts, or was based on the sole testimony of the staff ? Why is it that the Shit Times sees it fit to publish such details at this point of time without any verification ?

Hidden agenda, again >

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't Cynthia Phua be sent to Prison for needless Provocation?


The mother and SON are the untouchables of Singapore new class and new world order.

Even earning $400 per month they have to pay taxes too, they contributed to the Cynthia Phua's pay; LHL and family's pay.

Anonymous said...

For your information,

As long anybody who attacked the civil servant like recent the Yio Chu Kang MP case, the news will declared the "attacker" have mental problems.

This is to misled the public that only mental problem will behave in this way.

I will see there were more similar case increasing due to this recession period.

Soon, there are going to be more stricter laws to punish and act as warning for the public.

However, when the people gone desperate without help, they will do something beyond our imagination.

I foresee in future Meet-the-People session, the people will meet the MP with a safety glass/fence like the detention jail.


Anonymous said...

A gracious and rightthinkg MP would have assessed the situation and for this case, wouldn't have call in the police. After all the boy has a low IQ and may not understand immediately what he's done, which is actually trivial anyway.
Now the mother has her problems compounded with her boy getting charged.
Cythia Phua is my area MP. Never like her.I have heard some constituents actually called her "Fat lady"

Anonymous said...

Yes Cyhthia Phua is being very kind by sending the kid to jail, so that he can have free accomodation and meal from the state. Is'nt this kindness?????????

Chrisloup said...

lol I agree, isn't jail time a place for one to learn regiment, discipline and respect for one's elders?

somemore free food and lodging at taxpayers expense, the best that security can provide...

Indeed, this is the ultimate safety net.

Anonymous said...

This kind of attitude of our MPs is just disgusting ! This is why we hear more and more of them getting flake from the common Singaporeans, and these MP stooges totally deserve the backlash !!

I hope next time the MPs get smelly shoes thrown at them !

Anonymous said...

Mother of all these PAP's nonsense began a few years ago:

When CSJ asked GCT for the US$9 million loans to Suharto, he was sued to bankruptcy and everyone seemed to agree that he deserved it.

Now that peasants are charged one by one for "showing disrespect" to their masters.

Anonymous said...

"... So she is made to 'tackle' the HDB which threatens to take her flat, Singapore Power which cuts her utilities, go apply for medical aid separately when she is sick and visits the MP for piecemeal financial help every month. Maybe the govt believes that putting obstacles to help can make being poor so painful people are motivated to get rich - not working lah, the number of poor people have been growing year after year. For a govt that prides itself for being efficient, they have the most inefficient way of helping the poor euphemistically called the "many helping hands" is more like "the many obstacles" approach..."

I appreciates the observation you'd made and agrees that there are still alot of obstacles for the needy today.

The govt recognises that what is given out is hard to take back, this message has been mentioned quite a bit, it therefore makes sense for them to extend help to the needy in a piecemeal way.

But it was precisely this piecemeal way of upgrading their salaries in the past that prompted them to benchmark their own pay to the public sector, by doing so they dun have to go thru the hassles of justifying their pay increases in a piecemeal way each time.

While theirs have now become auto-pilot by effect of the benchmarking policy, the other policies such as help, care, welfare to the poor remained piecemeal from my observation.

On one hand, the needy and poor still have to ask, plead, beg, qualify, apply and pass thru these hassles and obstacles to get helped, the "case to case piecdemeal way", on the other hand the policymakers made it a priority to remove the hassles and obstacles to their own renumerations.

Question is, shudnt this have been prioritised the other way around?

Anonymous said...

Just understand the fact that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer here...

Anonymous said...

That's why we need to be aware! ARE YOU AWARE?

Anonymous said...

High class elites like Minister Lim have never watched WWE before lah ... how would she know.

Anonymous said...

$400-a-month-salary cleaner mother + 17-year-old-boy-low-IQ and suffering from thalassermia + pointed questions + There is a clear line between being frustrated or disappointed and being violent. The thrown chair could have killed somebody = you are in for more good shows (social problems)to come

Anonymous said...

it is unrealistic to expect a trash collector to smell like your garden flower all the time.
it is unrealistic to expect a heart patient to run the marathon
it is unrealistic to expect your typical heartland ah soh to grace high class social events like a seasoned socialite tai tai.

sometimes, you feel like the government will only help those who show remorse for being poor or they expect them to behave in a certain way - come crying and begging for crumbs or show immense foot kissing gratitude for what you are about to receive - before help is rendered

the real world doesn't work that way sirs.

if you work in a rubbish dump, you'll smell like rotting fish at the end of the day

never kick someone when they're down. never treat someone any lesser, be condescending or patronizing because they don't speak like your college professor or possess the charm of a gigolo.

you are better only because you are annoyingly louder than others.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:09, you have not demonstrated how my arguments are irrational or illogical.

You started off with a non sequitur about direct versus indirect taxation, moved on to an uncalled for and baseless ad hominem, and then proceeded to set up a very poor strawman fallacy. Please learn to reason.

It seems you feel that our ministers aren't really that good and don't deserve such high salaries. That may well be true. I personally don't know since I haven't had the "privilege" of working with them, but they may indeed be much less capable than they take themselves to be. Then again, they might not. Hard for outsiders to tell.

As for paying more generating compliance instead of honesty, I would have to disagree. A person who is paid more is neither more obedient nor more honest. He is simply less inclined to do anything to lose his salary. Of course, this may translate into (ostensible) obedience. Anyway, the end result is that blatant corruption (such as in see in many neighbouring countries) is less likely to happen. Hopefully.

I do agree with you to an extent regarding how poorly the government measures ability and contribution. It's generally true that public sector promotions, for instance, are awarded based on academic qualifications rather than actual performance on the job. It is not a stretch to imagine that the same flawed thinking applies too to the public service award selection process.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:06, you may have confused my post with another's. At no point did I say we were taxed lightly. Furthermore, I do not agree with that sentiment and feel instead that Singaporeans groan under the weight of a rather hefty cost of living (which is influenced by our taxation system).

I was just saying that the government *would certainly* raise taxes in order to cover the expenses of more significant public welfare.

As for whether they are right to do that, well, that's a matter of opinion. It's true our national coffers are substantial, but some would say that they need to be in order for the country to have financial security. I'm no business or accounting major and admit to complete ignorance on whether this is the case. Logically, however, I would have to guess that national reserves *must* grow rather than stay static or decrease because of increasing population and international competition. It's a rainy day fund, and spending your rainy day fund to feed your lazy toes is a really dumb thing to do.

I will go on record to say that I disaprove of an unemployment dole, however. Let's say that one could easily qualify for state benefits of $X a month when unemployed. Now, how much do I need to earn before that $X amount for /no work at all/ looks more attractive than the salary I'm working my fingers to the bone for? As more people give up their jobs, the burden on the remaining workforce necessarily increases. I'm taxed heavily enough as it is, thank you very much.

The problem here is that, while this all makes sense mathematically, it seems to be true that we Singaporeans are a stressed out, unhappy lot. Hell, I'm pretty stressed out and unhappy myself, lol! I emotionally agree with you on how we are "left out in the cold", but I disagree that becoming a welfare state would solve our problems (they might for perhaps a couple of generations, and then our grandchildren are going to get it).

Again, paying the ministers less will not solve our problems. How much less can you pay them, and when you distribute that amount among our 3 million-odd population, how much would each of us get? Perhaps they are being overpaid, perhaps they are incapable morons, but paying them less is not the solution! (It would make us all feel better though, I agree.) Instead of grousing about how we feel, could we not instead look at real solutions?

But then I guess most of us here are not interested in solutions. We simply feel the economic imbalance keenly and want to complain. That's very Singaporean, really. I'm no better than anyone else here: I'm just twiddling my thumbs and throwing my two cents in just as everyone else here is. Whatever I say is pointless drivel too (even if it is logical drivel) since it will not lead to any sort of actual change in the nation.

Anonymous said...

anon 7:40 PM

U have hit the nail on the head. The problem (for most of us) is relative wealth, not absolute wealth.

Being able to force a system to give them undeserved relative wealth make the elite an aristocracy. In some ways 'better' than the common folks. This is a clear symbol of unbalanced power. If we do not stop it here, where will it end?

Their own laws? Their own schools? Only ellites are allowed to be properly educated, the rest go to sub-standard schools?

The pay gap is a glaring syptom. We must not and cannot let them get away with it.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:17, I'm actually lower middle class myself. And my opinions are strictly my own. I haven't bothered to listen to the government's speeches and I hardly read the newspapers. Not things to brag about, I know. :p

Next, I actually had not said a single thing about minimum wage. I personally don't see why minimum wage is evil. Welfare is evil though, as I have said a few times already. The people who will suffer most from a welfare system are - get this - the lower middle class. Like myself and probably most of you here.

Yeah, people should call me selfish. I have no desire to feed the lazy. However, the needy are a different matter, and I gather that the truly needy /are/ getting assistance from the government. If they are not, then I stand corrected. However, present incontrovertible evidence, please.

Let's put it another way. Question: if we were a welfare state, how many of the people posting here would actually get benefits from the system? Answer: NONE.

The countries you have listed are different from Singapore. I wonder how it has escaped you that Singapore has no natural resources to speak of. We are basically a small, poor country that should have collapsed and died ages ago. That we haven't is a testament to the spirit of our forefathers.

Lastly, (this bit is not directed at anyone in particular) it has not yet been determined what will happen to the kid or his family. Sheesh, people, ease up. Do you think the law would really fine a low-IQ kid from a dirt poor family $2,500? I'm glad everyone here feels for them, but I for one would be very surprised if they don't emerge from this case perfectly fine, not fined. :p Provided the kid really is of subnormal intelligence and they are really that poor, that is.

Peace, my fellow Singaporeans.

Ganga said...

According to the TNP report, he is to report back to the Police on 12 May 2009 - which would mean it is a Police Bail and not Court Bail. On a Police Bail, he is technically only under investigation and as of yet not been charged in Court.

There is (still) a possibility that he will be let off with a warning from the Police (ie. not charged in court). However, with the MP's public rejection of the boy's apology, the authorities may decide to charge him in order to ensure consistency (ie. MP say very serious so Police charge him in court).

tiredman said...

The MPs seems not very kind and forgiving towards "her" people. It seems to be quite clear that MPs are not people's MPs. They are money driven MPs... how sad....

Anonymous said...

the message is:be polite( non violent) if you want help.

they should teach them young - make kissing asses as part of school syllabus - if they want to make a decent living in life.

kiss the right ass, you may just land an important job.

good luck

Anonymous said...

our ministers are all ninja warrior trained

no need to finish the course as long as there is amusement value.s

Anonymous said...

What happen to sg? very sad.
The needy cannot get the help they need, or is so difficult.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 7:58 PM,

I have a problem trying to comprehend what are trying to say but one thing is clear you said "welfare is evil".

Why is welfare evil given its objective is to help the needy?

Perhaps you mean the abuse of welfare is evil. I am sure everyone will agree with you on that but if so, you have said nothing new.

You still don't seem to realize that the CPF system is PAP's version of social welfare. It is our form of social security, another term for social welfare.

So whether you or anyone like it or not, social welfare is here to stay.

When you grow old and is unable to work, you need social welfare to sustain you, just in case you do not have enough personal saving. It is not just about helping the other person, hope you understand this point.

Social security is universal in every developed country; the problem in Singapore is that PAP claims that the collectivised welfare system is a bad idea, while our individualized welfare system called CPF is "the greatest invention since the wheel" in the words of Tony Tan when he was Finance Minister.

But think what has this system developed into? It has become a source of "cheap loans" for GLCs, just to borrow a term from a PAP MP himself who made this remark last year in Parliament.

Not only "cheap loans", the very real danger is that there is now no accountability on how the fund is being used and how it is performing through the GLCs - Temasek and GIC just to name the 2 largest.

Finance Minister Tharman said it himself in Parliament that how Temasek performed was not his problem, loud and clear.

Why are you talking as though there is no welfare system in Singapore. It is there but not collectivised and the PAP is abusing it for its other obscure objectives, one of which I feel is to build a economic power structure over and above the political one through the GLCs.

With that, as the Singlish saying goes "you die your matter". Whatever CPF money you have saved through a lifetime will not necessarily be protected. Nobody in PAP be it the Finance Minister nor the President Nathan wants to take responsibility for looking after this money, never mind they are in fact paid to do so.

So you are way, way back in opposing social welfare as though there is no such a thing in Singapore. It is there, just terribly dyfunctional and abused by the powers that be.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:58 is like Joe the plumber who votes/talks like a Investment Banker.

And he is not going to change his mind until Khaw ships him to JB.

On a side note, the boy is doomed in our current academic-based "meritocracy". He may do better as a master criminal from the skills he picks up in the slammer.

Lets not be shy. Our criminals do very well outside of Singapore.

Anonymous said...

For each passing day, the MIW have become more and more untouchable while the pleasant of lesser moral are punishable.

When I read this article, it make me very angry. What can I do to make this country better? Unfortunately, I am just another digit of lesser moral.

Karma. Justice. Does both truly exist? Overtime, I find them questionable.

When I watch documentary films like "Planet Earth", "Earth from Above", I feel that human being are the worst creatures on Earth. That is why so many holy teachings evolved for thousand of years to guide the human race.

Anonymous said...

Poor mother and son. Hope God will help them.

Anonymous said...

do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the Lord will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them. proverbs 22.

Anonymous said...

Welfare is existent in Singapore and deeply entrenched; not for the poor and needy, but for the elite.

There are easily 5-6 millionaire ministers in the PM's office. Does he really need 5-6 ministers to hold his hand? If no, then why are they still there? Why are they still there year after year? Isn't that some form of welfare towards those ministers?

If we cascade further, why do we need a highly paid President, when in the end, he is highly dependent on his aides for advice? Why not just do away with the President, and just get his aides to safeguard our reserves? Ultimately, his decision is still strongly influenced by his aides' advice. So, isn't the President also on welfare?

We have many politicians who are paid way above what normal politicians are paid. And after they step down, they still receive a life pension. Which other profession pays a life pension to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to an employee?

That isn't welfare to you????

Then what is this dirty word 'welfare'; giving a real helping hand to those in need?

Basically, the only thing wrong with welfare is that you are too selfish to help your fellowman in need.

Hide behind all your "logical" arguments if you like. But at the end of the day, the fella who can happily dole out $500k to buy a flat or $100k to buy a new car is too cheap to pay a bit more in taxes a year to help the needy.

Go boil your own head!

Anonymous said...


Its useless arguing how the court will be kind to the poor. Wake Up.

Go and attend some of the night courts at the Sub-Courts. You can observe who the Judges are and who are their masters.

I have seen a motorcyclist ($200 motorcycle) being fined $42,000, or 5 years jail for unpaid summons.

Valen Minbari said...

BOOO MP Lim...

Anonymous said...

Women can't think straight when they are having PMS...could be the reason why the poor boy is charged...wrong timing.

Anonymous said...

It is time to send females to NS to toughen them up, otherwise they behave worse than sissy !
All they can do is complain and complain and cannot withstand pressure. When war time come, they will easily turn traitor due to their weak personality.

Anonymous said...

"Oh btw where's the money from the 2% GST increase last year? Wasn't it supposed to 'help the poor'?"

Obviously the poor boy and his mother are not poor enough to qualify.

Chee Wai Lee said...

I feel so helpless, struggling to finish my thesis here in the US. I don't even know if I have the guts to offer help if I were home in Singapore ...

... but is there anything we can do to help that boy instead of just talking about it? Free legal help, financial help, or anything?

Like many, I'm angry at the way the child is being treated now but this anger is not going to help the suffering they are going through now.

Anonymous said...

The boy is already so pitiful, just forgive him.
we need to allow people to vent their anger, and shd not take it seriously.
especially he is only a boy.
many sgn are not gracious and not forgiving. sad.

Anonymous said...

Be kind to people, or u may lose yr "golden period" to do so.

Anonymous said...

Instead of getting help for a few $, end up in big trouble & loss big.
why go

Anonymous said...

The irony of the whole incident.

Mother and son go to see MP for help.

The result?
Must report to police, scramble for money for bail, worry about their next meal, worry over court appearance, worry about money for their rental flat deposit, beg MP for forgiveness, worry about their next meal.

The poor mother must be saying to herself "If only we DID NOT go and meet the MP"
"If only .... "
"If only .... "

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be surprise that one day we have an uprising by the hoi polloi.

The rich never learn, until it is too late.

Instead of correctly interpreting the underlying maliase from the SHT 'burning' issue, they have typically react by coming down hard, very often without good judgement, as shown ibn this and other recent cases.

All the wrong instincts nad wrong reactions that can only points to more trouble ahead. And they would reap what they sow.

My prediction is that inspite of the propective walling by the govt of its MPs, someone will be getting hurt, really badly, in the future. Call me a pessimist if you like, but I really feel it in my bone.

Anonymous said...

"I feel so helpless, struggling to finish my thesis here in the US. I don't even know if I have the guts to offer help if I were home in Singapore ...

... but is there anything we can do to help that boy instead of just talking about it? Free legal help, financial help, or anything?

Like many, I'm angry at the way the child is being treated now but this anger is not going to help the suffering they are going through now."

people who need pulic assistance must turn up at the MPs doorstep with predetermined conditions.

seriously, if these people had met the "pre-qualifying conditions" before help can be rendered, would they have come to them in the first place?

it is natural to be angry when the odds(created by the elites)are stack against you in life.

in sg, anger is not a god given right.

Anonymous said...

government people are so thin skinned now a scold them, they will ignore you, don't reply to you and worse, aggravate your problems

all of a certain, their SINs become much smaller than yours if you scold them

no wonder self righteous ppl get powder sent to their doorstep

Anonymous said...

His outburst with the chair - two blows against the glass door, which didn't break - was 'strong enough to get someone killed', said the Serangoon PAP branch secretary, Mr Poon Mun Wai.

Mr Poon is aiming for 8 mths bonus? i also recalled the customer service officer who rec'd the call from the rag-and-bone man also "created" a mountain out of molehill

Anonymous said...

aiyah, poor people "violence" is just another of there poblem lah and shld be treat like problem to solve lah

u scare beat up scare die, dun serve ppl lor.

somemore, pap not violent meh? they indiractly cause hurt to ppl, lose jobs, lose money, lose family, lose life get into crime because money problem they create etc etc

not violent meh?

aiyah, violent only how u look at it lah

go court sue sue sue also VIOLENT what

call legal violent mah as bad as GANGSTER LAH .lolololol

Anonymous said...

as a Christian, i wld like to ask my sister-in-Christ, Dennis Phua, to show some compassion to the poor boy.

pls do what Jesus would do.

Anonymous said...

and..get police choojo ppl...not violent meh?

tsk tsk tsk..such coward bullies use tax payers no shame..hehe

Anonymous said...

you show her do wat jesus do

Anonymous said...

aiyah,..christians lose aledy..they condemn ppl with gods words. when they want win u..they sweet talk with gods word..full of crap lah

must be like religion can talk cock here talk cock

Anonymous said...

Next thing you know all this Meet The People sessions need to have Gurkha, Cisco Police or Singapore Police force to be around to ensure the MP safety. Any wrong move or suspicious behavour from the lesser mortal the Gurkha or Police will be license to kill without a blink of an eye.

Then they can say the cost of looking after lesser mortal increase as a result GST will be increase to 10% lol

Anonymous said...

PAP also stands for...Punishment And Persecution

Anonymous said...

From "Meet the People" session to "Meet the Police" session. Singapore has aggravated to such state !

Anonymous said...

Don't be too complacent.
Now it is time to help people, or u may loss yr best timing to do so.
be prepared.

Anonymous said...

the holier than thou attitude permeate the entire pap controlled system.

do a test on the internet...visit any forum and blogs, same stinking attitude is found in all their breed irrespective of which camp you belong

what am i talking abt? they have no clue because..they keep repeating the same stinking attitude.

and that's why people like the boy....they will die in such a system

Anonymous said...

From "Meet the People" session to "Meet the Police" session. Singapore has aggravated to such state !

lol...achually...the people shl first meet the police...police pass aleady.....than meet MP. lol

Anonymous said...

Hi, Anon 9:50,

I don't think I can agree that the CPF system is our version of welfare. It seems to me, in fact, a device to lessen the need for public welfare. It's primarily an enforced savings plan, after all. Welfare is different because it draws from the employed to feed the unemployed.

Yes, the government does make use of these savings to try and grow the national coffers. That in itself is really a good thing. /How/ they do it and whether they succeed (or end up losing money) is another matter though.

Anon 11:30,

I'm sorry you feel that way. Just one question for you though: how much have you personally contributed to the less fortunate? If you have been practising what you are preaching and have given up your car and your flat to help others, hat off to you. I find it very hard to believe that could be the case though. Not too many people in this world are altruistic enough to sacrifice themselves for others to that degree. Basically, I'm calling you a hypocrite. Prove me wrong.

Anon 11:37,

I fear your prediction may slowly come true. Regardless of whether or not the government is acting logically and honourably, too many people perceive that they are not. Hence, it may be only a matter of time before changes happen, and the irony of democratically-driven political change is that it almost always hurts the common people more than it hurts the fat cats in power.

Let's say we rise up and overthrow the government. What then? Well, everyone suffers from the political instability (and political instability is especially bad for a tiny nation without natural resources), and the have-nots (us) suffer most. A new ruling elite eventually comes into power and everything goes back to how it was before. The rich still get richer, the poor still get poorer.

The only way to escape this terrible fate as a society is to become so rich that nobody really is a has-not. The European powers more or less managed it for a time, did they not? But they did it only by exploiting the rest of the world.

All right, if we can't save the whole world, who can we save? Rationally, ourselves. We can do our level best to emerge from the confines of our socioeconomic prison and become well-fed cats ourselves. And THEN we will have the wherewithal to make a difference to the needy. (Whether we will lose our souls in the process of becoming not-poor is a problem though.)

It's all well and good for us to gather here and mutter angrily, but if we don't help ourselves, nothing's going to change. And if we all help ourselves, there will be very few people left who really need help. Once more, it is important to help the needy, but we must proceed logically.

That said, if anyone here is willing to do what Anon 11:30 feels we should do - give up even the flats we live in to feed the poor - more power to you.

Anonymous said...

shameless clue as to why they are evil..

Anonymous said...

he was charged in court yesterday, so what was the verdict?

Albert Ng said...

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God - Mark 10:25.

Proverbs 14:31 (NKJV)

He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker,
But he who honors Him has mercy on the needy.

Proverbs 28:27 (NKJV)
He who gives to the poor will not lack,
But he who hides his eyes will have many curses.

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Anonymous said...

Keep in mind that not ALL MPs are heartless and useless. Some really do help alot and bond with the residents who are in need regardless of race/religion or class, and I'm speaking from experience.

We just need to filter out the bad eggs.

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Anonymous said...

If being motherly and the boy still rage and throw chair i think she's being motherly and scold them like a bad child. If that's true, all i have to say to the MP is "CCB fucking wake up your idea ok!"

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

Anyone have any follow-up to this story? What was the outcome? What has become of the boy and his mom?

Anonymous said...

in response to Lim Bee Hwa's comment that Cynthia is a motherly figure.

Please refer to these pictures of her son, Sean Lee:

Below is his facebook page:

Anonymous said...

Don't know if the mps were really rude to him which angered him. But he and his mum appeared on an episode of dream potter before. At the later part of the show, they seem quite ungrateful and difficult to get along..I don't know what the truth is. Let's wait for CP and LHH's reply before judging

Anonymous said...

Here's the video by the way

Anonymous said...

If, as a resident of Aljunied GRC, I don't support PAP, it would be because I don't want people like Cynthia Phua and Lim Hwee Hua in Parliament. George Yeo is really quite a talent, but it's just too bad he's got those two in his line up. GRCs ftw.

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