Friday, August 14, 2009

MM : Singapore now highly dependent on foreigners....

"Had we not had the foreign workers, more Singaporeans would have lost their jobs"
- MM Lee


"Singapore's current total fertility rate is 1.28, even lower than that of Japan (1.37), which too is facing an ageing and declining population." - MM Lee

"We need immigrants to make up for the children we are not having. This is a hard fact of life. Between the ages of 25 and 40, over 30 per cent remain unmarried" - Mr Lee.

Very sobering facts. Many Singaporeans have decided to stop reproducing. Many won't want to get married. Our MM Lee is telling us that so many foreigners are imported into the country because our fertility rate is very low.

MM Lee is wrong. Why? He uses the fertility rate today (1.28) to explain why we need so many foreign workers in Singapore today. The Singapore workforce today is not build (born) today but more than 30 years ago. You cannot use our low fertility rate today to argue that we need so many workers now because our workforce is today is dependent on the fertility rate 30-40 years ago! The fertility rate was 3.0 in 1970 but steadily declined to 2.0 in the late 70s and early 80s.

Using fertility rate argument, our need for foreign imported labor today is no more than say Canada, Italy or Switzerland. MM Lee is now pushing the blame for the large number of foreign workers on Singaporeans! He is now saying they are here because Singaporeans today refuse to have more children - he is saying it is all YOUR FAULT!!! The real reason why our workforce is not bigger today is due to PAP's gigantuan policy error - "Stop at 2"....the overzealous social engineering based on their own flawed belief 30+ years ago that the Singapore economy cannot support a larger population today. Now they have swung to the other extreme to expand the population.
The real reason for the large % of imported labor, more than almost anywhere else in the world, is to keep wages down so that rent, utilities, transport and other costs can go up. It would have been alright if we did it like Dubai where the indigenous population sit on top of the economic food chain while foreigners do all the work. The problem is a large number of Singaporeans are at the bottom of the food chain....crushed.

The strategy to import people and quickly convert them to citizens to rapidly expand the population today will mean the size of our elderly population will be huge 30 years from today - that will mean that there will be less resources to support each aged person when it happens. The PAP's shortsighted policies to import people to grow the economy quickly will cause numerous problems down the road that will hurt Singaporeans badly. Already we see the benefits of this policy concentrated on a small segment of our society the big businesses and landlords while the ordinary Singaporean has to face the pain of lower wages and higher cost of living (housing etc) leading to the high stress levels that is primary cause of low fertility[link, link, link] To hear that the need for foreign workers is now blamed on our inability to have and support more children per family is an insult - the PAP govt is now rubbing salt onto our wounds.

---------------------------------------------------


Business Times - 14 Aug 2009
H1 would have been worse without foreign workers: MM

More Singaporeans would have lost jobs; immigrants vital to keep economy strong


By LEE U-WEN (SINGAPORE) Among those who lost their jobs in the first half of this year, many have been foreign workers, rather than Singaporeans. And among citizens and permanent residents, there were net job gains in the first six months of 2009, even though the economy shrank 6.5 per cent during that period, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said last night.


Speaking to his constituents and grassroots leaders at the Tanjong Pagar National Day celebration dinner, Mr Lee drove home the point that Singapore needs foreign workers so that the country can grow faster when conditions are favourable, and to buffer the shock when conditions turn.


In his speech, Mr Lee said 70 per cent of all foreigners in Singapore are here temporarily on renewable long-term passes, while the remainder are PRs.

'Had we not had the foreign workers, more Singaporeans would have lost their jobs,' he said.

'We need immigrants to make up for the children we are not having. This is a hard fact of life. Between the ages of 25 and 40, over 30 per cent remain unmarried,' said Mr Lee at the Tanjong Pagar Community Club. 'Those who marry are not replacing themselves.

'Singapore's current total fertility rate is 1.28, even lower than that of Japan (1.37), which too is facing an ageing and declining population. Latest figures show that in Singapore, Malays have the highest average of 1.91 children; Indians 1.19; and Chinese the lowest with just 1.14 children.

'If we do not have educated Malaysians, China Chinese, India Indians and others from the region, our economy will decline. Our labour force will shrink,' said Mr Lee.

'Without immigration, the ageing problem will be too heavy a burden for our young. Immigrants who can be integrated without upsetting the racial balance are in our interest.'

Turning to his views on the economy, which is beginning to show signs of a recovery, he urged Singaporeans to take a 'long-term view of our position' and not be short-sighted.'We are in a strong position today, our stability and efficiency is known throughout the world,' he said.

Citing one recent example of the overall level of investor confidence in the Republic, Mr Lee recalled how US oil giant ExxonMobil decided to pump in US$4.5 billion to build a steam cracker project on Jurong Island in 2007. The plant is scheduled to be completed in 2011.

'Their CEO Rex Tillerson believed demand would be there. But his board of directors were so surprised they were unwilling to believe this,' said Mr Lee.

'So he took an aeroplane to bring them all here, to meet with the prime minister and I. We spent one-and-a-half hours discussing the future of this region and Singapore's place. We took them to Jurong Island, and after that they agreed.

''US$4.5 billion is a vote of confidence in our future. Other MNCs will notice that and I'm quite sure when the financial crisis is over, we are going to get many investments,' said Mr Lee, adding that Singapore has many free trade deals with countries such as the US, Japan, India and China.'If we cannot grow, then there must be something wrong with us,' he said.

183 comments:

Anonymous said...

thank you for this very illuminating piece.

why are we paying obscene money for politicians who can't even pull wool over our eyes convincingly???

Anonymous said...

I realy wish the MSM will highlight these points that you bring up instead of just parroting that senile man like is some holy truths.

LuckySingaporean said...

anon 7:02,

You have to pay them more if you want thicker wool :-)

Anonymous said...

Why do they keep lying to us? Sad.

DanielXX said...

We need to FUCK -- Fornication Under Consent of the King. Maybe they should get prostitutes and prison lowlife to mate, like the 16th century when the king issued the FUCK order.

Hold on, this is already happening in another form right? All the massage parlours around..... maybe our birthrates will see a boost due to the virility of our 60-year old retirees!

Anonymous said...

I will never forget his attempts at eugenics, on top of the "stop at 2" policy. To convince lesser educated parents to stop producing, a grant of 10,000 was given for housing in exchange for a ligation. Then the tax incentives for graduates mothers to give birth before they are 30. From that time on, I never respect the man.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 14/8/09 07:02

"why are we paying obscene money for politicians who can't even pull wool over our eyes convincingly???"

The real question we should ask ourselves is why do we continue to vote them into office when they are doing this to us. Since we've given them mandate to rule, we've also given them the power to reward themselves richly. We only have ourselves to blame. They are only behaving like all humans do. When there is no oversight or control, people are bound to misbehave. You may call it plundering the state coffers, they call it their entitlement.

Anonymous said...

Ironic to think that the person who keeps preaching about Singapore's future is a person who surrendered and served the Japanese during the Occupation instead of fighting them.

Imagine a European politician who acknowledges that he once served the Nazis instead of fighting them.

Anonymous said...

There was one, Kurt Waldheim, former Secretary General of the UN and also former President of Austria. He was a Nazi.

Look even if LKY was a Kempetai informer that fact would have been buried deep never to see the light of day. I just hope in the course of his service to the Kempetai, he did not cause the death of his countrymen. That would be unforgivable.

Anonymous said...

Lucky

While the old man still breathes, the answer to all problems is "FDI+FT".

Alan Wong said...

I thing our PAP leaders especially LKY do not want to admit their own mistakes in their past administration.

Just look at CPF's failure to provide for a comfortable retirement when we are now told that we have to work until 65 when there are not enough jobs to go around unlike our LKY who can get a couple of million dollars going around just talking crap at age 86.

I suspect the real reason is not the low rate of Singaporean producing babies. Look, in 30 or 40 years time, these immigrants will also become old and what is our Govt going to do with them ? What about the social problems they will bring to us ? Just look at the vices for example the Chinese immigrants bring with them : corruption, prostitution, marriage problems, adultery, etc. It will be a whole vicious cycle to think that these new immigrants will only bring properity to this country.

I belief the real reason is that it's the growing trend and belief that one day PAP will stand to lose power as local Singaporeans are becoming more discontented at PAP's policies. The Malays are procreating at a higher rate than the Chinese and I belief it's all a political decision to bring in more Chinese and Indians. If they indeed need more population, then why are they not increasing Muslim immigrants from Malaysia or Indonesia, indeed to be fair to all the major races in Singapore.

Obviously LKY have his own reasons for not telling us the actual reasons, isn't it ?

Anonymous said...

@Anon 9:23

Very clever.
Btw, did u know that Mr Hilter himself was ... Austrian. It was not unusual for Austrians to work for the Germans.

Was LKY Japanese?
And do u know what Kempetai did?

Anonymous said...

He can say anything he wants. We are suffering from his "Stop at 2" policy implemented 30 yrs ago. there is no telling what social effects his current love affair with foreigners will pan out 20 - 30 yrs later. Already ppl are putting off marriage n having children due to the high cost/social difficulties in raising a family.

Anonymous said...

@Alan Wong

harlo ... the chinese u mentioned are FW (not FT). They are the ones who are actually useful .. u know serve the *needs* of the commoners, keep ur foodcourt clean and dun take away the places at universities...

ok, they deprive the lower educated of cleaner jobs but hey ... no free lunch

Anonymous said...

Let's see if the 66.6% wake up next GE..

Anonymous said...

previous anon,

From experience, they are not sleep so they won't wake up because they are in coma.

Anonymous said...

lucky

yeah, and we'll have to pay them more to slaughter more sheep (Singaporeans) to provide thicker wool...

furrybrowndog said...

Thanks to the influx of cheap foreign labour, local workers have seen their salaries remain artificially depressed even as the cost of living sky-rockets in Singapore. This makes them think twice about the costs of raising a family, prolonging a low birth rate and making Singapore even more reliant on foreign labour in the future.

Ender said...

The cost of living in Singapore today is so high that having children is a luxury. The basic wage of most Singaporeans is just sufficient to keep himself and perhaps another afloat after accounting for housing, utilities, food (cheap and not restaurant types). How to raise children on such depressed wages? What about parental obligations? This depression of the wages comes from the influx of mainly unmarried and highly energetic foreign workers who just focus on work with limited financial obligations. They can compete for jobs at lower wages because their overheads (food and bed and no long term housing loans) are lower. Can a person with heavy financial and familial obligations compete on the same level with other single workers or accept the same terms which will impoverish the family? There is a huge difference in living standards if 3 person is living on $1000 per month and 1 person on the same wage. The low fertility rate is a result of the government policy of importing foreign workers rather than a reason to import foreign workers.

Anonymous said...

I am a towkay. And I wish to fire every Singaporean in my company and replace them with foreign workers.

Imagine the cost savings, if I can successfully replace all my workers with foreigners; cheaper and no NS obligations and less maternity leave.

Can we fire all Singaporean workers; from construction worker to lawyer to doctor, and replace them with foreigners?

Imagine how much we can save!!

Anonymous said...

>>Can we fire all Singaporean workers; from construction worker to lawyer to doctor, and replace them with foreigners?

Ya..start with the Singapapore MPs...and we'll save millions :)

Anonymous said...

I’ve been following your blog for sometime and find that the topics you cover are relevant and your views sensible.

However armchair critics lack certain credibility as they operate with 20/20 hindsight vision. As the saying goes: those who can, do; those who can’t, teach/criticize. It’s different when one is in the hot seat pressing the button. Take the example of Gordon Brown. He was alongside Tony Blair for 10 years and viewed to be the architect of the British economy during the golden years. Yet when he took over the hot seat, he found that it wasn’t easy to be the decision maker pressing the button! Similarly, with 20/20 hindsight everyone criticised Temasek’s decision to sell BOA and Barclays shares. Imagine in Q4 2008 when everyone was staring at the abyss and Temasek was facing the prospect that every GLC would be calling for a rights issue. Imagine the carnage and collapse of GLC share prices if Temasek could not commit to subscribe for its rights. Temasek facing such a prospect would have to liquidate whatever assets that had a price (some illiquid investments had no price) even if the price was low as the alternative would have been to go back to the Ministry of Finance to ask for more funds which had to be passed by Parliament. So the decision was the lesser of 2 evils. As events turned out, several GLCs eg. DBS, Capitaland, NOL did call for rights issue while other GLCs raised capital from their asset sales. So the decision to sell BOA and Barclays may have been right at that point in time because the alternative would have been worse.

To gain credibility with the government and make them wake up to your call, you should start to organize and mobilize. With your loyal readers who share your views, you could raise funds, mobilise a team of volunteers and pick your causes to support. The purpose is to demonstrate (1) The cracks are there and you are supporting them in your own small way (2) The government or other bodies should notice and do something about it and (3) Those who are prepared to serve need not be compensated a high monetary reward debunking PAP’s philosophy that high salaries attract capable leaders who can take care for the ordinary people.

Then you will be able to spout more lucky Singaporeans.

Anonymous said...

I read the ST online news. My conclusion is LKY has totally lost it. He even said Japan's economy is feeble and lacks vitality! It is clear he is no economist and cannot see traditional blind GDP growth is increasingly unsustainable . Beyond any doubt he has to leave the scene asap in order to usher in urgent new changes.

Onlooker said...

Such irresponsibility,Importing More cheap labour is only deferring the problem to future generations unless the FWs never grow old like robots.
At which time,The "Wise" mafia man would already be 6 feet under.
However if one were to look at the problem posted in another perspective, it already proved that it is just a charlatan who does not know how to clean up the mess that was made.
Like the senile uncle who need help when he lost the mental faculty to look after himself.
Except the uncle's son do not dare to go against the father wish and clean up the shit that the father had made a mess of.

What to do? it happened.....

Anonymous said...

Cost of living in Singapore is so high, so why do I need to get married and procreate for the sake of the country economy?
I will rather save for myself first since the govt will not bother about me when I am old and cannot work in future.

Azz said...

Sorry to disagree with you, but I doubt that the "stop at 2" policy had much impact on the decline in fertility rate. I think this is simply a result of industrialisation. Just need to compare with the other countries listed in the table and it's obvious that it's the same trend for other developed countries (where there was no such policy as far as I know).

Anonymous said...

There is only one ultimate solution - that is to emigrate
and take out all your cpf money(while it is still there). In my
humble opinion, I don't think the govt. is eager t return my cpf money.

I don't understand why Sinkaporeans just like to complain and do nothing about it. Sinkaporeans deserve better.

Anonymous said...

Such irresponsibility,Importing More cheap labour is only deferring the problem to future generations unless the FWs never grow old like robots.


In a sense this is Singapore's own version of US's financial sub-prime crisis.

Here we have a social sub-prime crisis. A sub-prime party implementing sub-prime policies that bring in sub-prime foreigners, creating a bubble. And to fuel growth he lets the bubble balloons. But like all bubble, it will sooner or later burst.

WL said...

The PAP government had made serious mistakes and what is worse is that the present policy will wreck havoc in the decades ahead.

Anonymous said...

Fire all Singaporean workers and replace them with foreign talents!

The cost savings will be tremendous! Companies would start report record profits, and our local stock market will rally!

Can we send all Singaporean workers, and their liabilities (children, aged parents) to some nursing home in Johor or Batam? We only allow Singaporeans to come back to Singapore to do NS or reservist duty.

Anonymous said...

Why is PAP and MM Lee so obsessed with economic growth?

What is the effect 30 years down the road.

Mr Lucky, I wish the govt will feel our anxiety as well - but I guess they are in a hurry to grow GDP at all costs because their performance bonus, as well as all civil servants, depend on GDP growth.

Short sighted, but true.

Anonymous said...

Lucky, got to agree with anon 14/8/09 11:48 that the stop at 2 policy is not the culprit, but rather the ugliness of globalisation that serves to benefit the capitalists.

If I may, dwell on some econs 101.
We know that land, labour, capital and management (entreprenuership) are the essential 4 factors of production. In the past, with agri society, land owner calls the shot. But now with rapid urbaniation, technology advancement, globalisation and all about trade, it is capital owners who are kingpins.

To compete, we know skilled managers and land are always scarce, so labour (workers) have to be sacrificed in the chase for profits. So it is no wonder that real wage keeps falling.

So to be fair, we are forced to compete with low wages to survive due to changes in the international environment.
But as our gahman's mandate to rule is economic growth, they are pursuing policies to the extreme to maintain the growth, which carry very heavy social costs like health care privatisation, migrant friendliness, no safety net for retrenched workers etc that will alienate the majority.

If history is a mirror, such high dis-regard for citizen welfare does not auguer well for future of Singapore. People might be silent, but one day they could act like one chinese saying :"Silent Dogs are the ones likely to kill human."

Anonymous said...

It is clear that LKY calls the shots in Singapore. The important ones anyway, like increasing intake of migrants from China and India. This is going to be the way Singapore is run until he dies. I'm sure many including those in the government disagree with him but no one dares to oppose him for self preservation. Like it or not we have to wait for him to die before there can be changes in the way the country is run. I don't hope the country to fall apart. I don't hope for PAP to be kicked out. I just hope that those people who cares for the country to put their differences aside and fix what is wrong with this country. For the moment we just have to endure because LKY will not tolerate any opposition (not limited to those of political nature). In fact, I doubt if he listens to any counsel. He knows what is best for the country and no one is going to tell him otherwise. The big question now is how long.

Anonymous said...

HE IS AN OLD FOOL.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 14/8/09 09:08,

With all due respect, what LKY did during the war is not relevant at all to this discussion. I'm not sucking up to him, but as a gentle reminder, from 1965 to now, from an economic and regional/global standpoint,much of it is through LKY and his team. Its a bit harsh the way you put it - "Ironic to think that the person who keeps preaching about Singapore's future is a person who surrendered and served the Japanese.."

He may be preaching the wrong thing, and we may not agree to what he's preaching, and we may not be happy to how he's doing things right now, but your point about him during the Occupation, sorry for this, is way, way, way out of line, sir.

Back to the topic at hand - fertility of 1.28. I find it surprising that he did not say WHY people dont want to have children...

- its too expensive to support a large family in singapore. The tax breaks are not sufficient, esp when most of our hardearned money gets locked up forever, for the govt to make huge profits from.

- no more space

- children cannot be children anymore in Singapore. they're seen as part of a machine to contribute to GDP.

Anonymous said...

anon@14/8/09 11:28

To gain credibility with the government and make them wake up to your call, you should start to organize and mobilize. With your loyal readers who share your views, you could raise funds, mobilise a team of volunteers and pick your causes to support. The purpose is to demonstrate (1) The cracks are there and you are supporting them in your own small way (2) The government or other bodies should notice and do something about it and (3) Those who are prepared to serve need not be compensated a high monetary reward debunking PAP’s philosophy that high salaries attract capable leaders who can take care for the ordinary people.


To do all these tasks, first, government need to remove the ISA thingy...

With ISA, no chance....before you can action..you are being round up and close behind bars...

Anonymous said...

MM : Singapore now highly dependent on foreigners....

Like it just happened? Who is responsible? Singapore is NOW highly dependent on foreigners becos the pap has rightly or wrongly led us into it. No one asked for this, no other countries has done this.

Anonymous said...

To anon 14/8/09 13:40, PAP govt has not used ISA as a political tool for a long time now. Not since they found the use for the compliant court to bankrupt any opposition that presents a threat or nuisance to them. This not only more effective but attracts less criticism from bleeding heart liberals in the West. Anyway, the govt only need to shout for the rest of us shut up. In a way, we are all living in fear. They have such a strong psychological hold on us. Think, how many of us would dare to openly defy the govt?

Anonymous said...

@Anon 13:40

Wrong. 1st of all, Lucky needs have more(numeric) loyal readers than,say, XiaXue. *Which I think is already impossible*

Next, he needs to bide his time till the old man croaks. *old man can probably outrun & outswim Lucky*

Then he acts. *I dun want to insult Lucky's manhood so ...*

Seriously. ISA is nothing but one of his many tools.

LKY dun actually need the ISA anymore. ISA is simply an old habit. Without it, he can still do pretty much what he wants. The problem is the old man. While he breathes there is nothing any1 else can do.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 13:35

Unfortunately, u are wrong on 2 things.
1. What he did during the war shows exactly what sort of person he is. so in fact what is happening now is entirely predictable\inevitable.

but u might be happy that Lucky probably agrees with u .. based on his hero-worship of the ,say, Buffet. U know .."let me put it simply, u prefer this or ..."

2. no more space. that is a myth that PAP likes to use. Actually we have plenty of space. It is more accurate to say that space is not used or allocated efficiently.

Anonymous said...

@Azz

Again a fallacy.
Lucky is usually populist and inaccurate but in this case he is correct.

The "stop at 2" was indeed the main cause and u would understand if u were ard at that time.

Oh, and those countries were producing more babies at similar stage of industralization.

This countries have been industrialized for a much longer time.

Singapore is STILL a barely developed\industrialized nation.

But dun worry. U will eventually be correct. Ard 10 years.

couch potato critic said...

Don't make me puke, Anon 11:28. Armchair critics my arse.

[1] Greedily throwing tens of billions of dollars at brand-name sure-cannot-lose financial institutions which are failing before your very eyes, ignoring the cries of warning exploding all over the world - that's CLEVER? Ever heard the saying about throwing good money after bad? Doesn't require 20/20 visual acuity to spot the fool and his money, you know.

[2] Cut the bullshit excuse about it not being easy in the hot seat. That's what these f*****s are paid a king's ransom for, that's the deal they accept when they step up to the plate - perform without any major screw-ups like every last CEO in the world is obliged to do, or take the consequences and get the hell out! Why should the demonstrably useless crew in charge of Temasek and GIC be allowed the luxury of whining about the heat in the kitchen without paying the price for gross failure? What the hell is so special about them that they cannot be criticised?

[3] "To gain credibility with the government...blah, blah..."
Hey, hey, hey, who gives a flying f*** about gaining the PAP's approval? It isn't the people of Singapore who have lost credibility, IT'S THE BLOODY GARMEN, FFS! Are you being deliberately obtuse? Let me summarise your last paragraph: "Join a political party and take us on, etc., etc., etc." - am I right?

Anonymous said...

I was a Geography student during my high school days. And back then, in the Urban Geography section, we were made to write about the benefits our "stop at 2" policy in our O-level exams, as a good way to curb over-population in Singapore. We even wrote that other developing countries should emulate Singapore's "stop at 2" policy.

We are highly dependent on foreign workers because Singapore has produced so little entrepreneurs. We are at the mercy of MNCs. Again, as a former Geography student, we were made to write about how smart Singapore was to rely heavily on MNCs, and how smart we were to tailor our schools to churn out diploma and degree holders to be workers, instead of businessmen.

For a developed society, we are too reliant on others to invest in us, instead of investing in ourselves. We have the money to invest in ourselves, but our leader's daughter-in-law thinks it is better to lose it in foreign financial markets. She has no regrets losing our money ,but has regrets over investing our reserves back in Singapore to support growth of local enterprises.

Now, the MNCs are packing up. We need to lower our wages so that they will stay. How low can our wages go? Will we one day, have to agree to work for 3 meals a day, or worse, work for free?

Anonymous said...

to compete effectively with the foreign talents, one must live like them... 3 to 6 people share 1 rental room and take turns to cook dinners... must not buy new clothings or luxuries, and send every penny to the bank. this is the swiss standards of living we were promised. if you dun like it, go to jb or some distant small town to rest.

Anonymous said...

Hey Lucky, I dun mind downgrading my standard of living to those of *failing* Japan. I am the easily satisfied type.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 16:09

The Foreign Talents in my company lives in luxurious condos and typically drive a BMW. Or a Porsche. Mercedes.

I think you mean Foreign Workers.

If you actually have been to Switzerland .. its actually not too unlike JB. Maybe with *sometimes* better weather and safer. Lousy food (but chocolates ok).

I dun know why u so desperate for swiss standards.

Anonymous said...

The sales pitch for having foreigners in sg is, they are talents... get that?

Anonymous said...

“The strategy to import people and quickly convert them to citizens to rapidly expand the population today will mean the size of our elderly population will be huge 30 years from today.”
- Lucky

But then they can still let in even more young foreigners in 30 years time to balance up what, right. Also in 30 years, many of the elderly will also die, so not necessary the elderly population will be huge.

So not really a problem. Anyway 30 years is a long time. Anything can happen or anything can be made to happen. And more than enough time to plan what to happen.

Anonymous said...

“The strategy to import people and quickly convert them to citizens to rapidly expand the population today will mean the size of our elderly population will be huge 30 years from today.”
- Lucky

Not really got a huge problem, those second class foreign talents are not idiots. Already say they are talents.

They are well aware of the goings ons in cpf and other things described here, because places like Canada, Australia and New Zealand got quota for each country.

By converting to Singapore citizens, they stand a much better chance to become citizens of Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Most probably they are not successful in the first time round in their native countries the first time round due to first time round. Take note that those first class one already directly go to better western countries.

I think the ruling elite is well aware of these new citizens loyalty, but because they stand a much better chance of going to Canada, Australia and New Zealand, than bottom 30% of Singaporeans. The odds of them being a burden when old is much lesser than bottom 30% who have nowhere to go other than Malaysia, Africa, or go back to ancestors homeland in China and India, which is worse than Singapore.

Meanwhile, during their transits here, they can contribute more to GDP, while at the same time, after they move on to Canada, Australia and New Zealand, new foreign talents from China and India can take their places.Thus they will be less of a burden when old.

This is better than not having foreign talents where bottom 40% not only contribute less to GDP but also less likely can qualified go to Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

And a burden to state when old.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 17:41

Lucky is inaccurate of course.
If not drama how to catch eyeballs?

But u are not totally correct either.
Ozland, Canada, Kiwiland .. they not dumb either. they have very specific requirements and coming to Sinkapoor may help but not by too much.

So, there is a significant chance that these 2nd/3rd class talents may choose to stay and milk the system for all its worth until the last drop.

And contributing to the GDP while in transit here is not entirely accurate either. The jobs would likely have been filled by locals. Locals can defintely perform the tasks of 2nd/3rd class FTs. The more accurate term is "leakage" as they tend to remit $$$ back home.

Anonymous said...

George says:
Any of the foreign imports have any brain, he/she would take note of how the old and aged are being treated right now. If they are still around, THAT TOO WOULD BE THEIR LOT WHEN THE TIME COMES. If they have any gray matter, they would make their pile and scoot for a far greener pasture to enjoy their golden years. Who wants to be subject to the scraps and handouts thrown to them by the govt and its lapdog agencies.

LuckySingaporean said...

To the anon @,...

You keep repeating that I'm not accurate. What inaccuracy? Please accuse me so that I can be enlightened. Otherwise, are you hoping to make the label stick by repetition?

couch potato critic said...

@ Anon 14/8/09 13:35,

With an equal amount of respect, I would disagree strongly with your assertion that, "what LKY did during the war is not relevant at all to this discussion".

He was born in 1923 and during the Japanese Occupation of Singapore in 1942-45, he was just 19-22 years of age. Those are the formative years for many, if not most, people. Think back to your personality at that age and reflect upon the lessons you learned then that helped mould you, oftentimes quite unconsciously.

He observed how effectively Jap cruelty terrified and controlled an entire country. Rigid intolerance, ruthless oppression, imprisonment of dissenters and the breaking of their defiance by torture - hey, these methods do work. He saw the invaders get everything they wanted by force and brutality. He noted that a frightened, cowed populace is by definition leaderless and quite incapable of mounting any sort of effective resistance against their tormentor.

Preferring to be a live coward than a dead hero, he picked who he thought would be the rulers for the forseeable future and joined the club. He made his first major mistake then, with that decision, and had to flee for his life to Malaya when the British returned victorious to begin hanging war criminals and local vigilante squads hunted for collaborators to execute.

To say that none of those early experiences had any bearing on LKY's current behaviour is, in my opinion, to be deliberately disingenuous. I would suspect they had a profoundly damaging effect upon his psyche and Singaporeans are now paying the price. Few can pass through the trauma of the horrors of war and come out unscathed.

We now have an aged sicko clinging on to power who has taken on board the lesson that the Japs got things done by being completely merciless and taking no prisoners. Time and again he has spoken admiringly of how little or no crime there was in occupied Singapore because perpetrators were treated with maximum harshness. As for Singapore's drug mules, he cheerfully laughs about how effective his policy of sending them to the gallows on the slightest pretext has been. "If I have to shoot 200,000 Chinese students to pacify China, why not"?

So expect no mercy, no charity, no welfare, no apology, because that would lead to failure and his daughter becoming a maid in a foreign country. Are you surprised to discover that in LKY's eyes it is always YOUR fault that the nation needs one FT per 2 native Singaporeans in order to grow faster and faster "when conditions are favourable" - just like a f**king cancer?

There really is only one question that should concern citizens if we want to get off the PAP treadmill - how do we get shot of this person so that we can move on beyond the dogma of 1960? Fix that and everything else will fall into place.

Anonymous said...

Thank you MM Lee, for your wonderful insight on having more FT. It is due to their (FT) presence that I have to compete for all jobs and eventually I still lost out to them.

I, a retrenched graduate (in my forties) since 2003, am still jobless.

Thank you very much for helping me to remain jobless.

Anonymous said...

if the question of loyalty and length of domicle were important, the selection process for new citizens, prs would have been more stringent. rather, i think those criterias wouldnt matter as much as the big bucks these imports will likely contribute to the country while they are here. more important must be the mechanism to ensure the continuous inflow of human and resultant profits that replenishes and replaces the departing guests.

Anonymous said...

But the jobs are there, taxis, cleaning, guards, IR etc. One must not be too choosy.

Anonymous said...

Hey Lucky

I already concede u r mostly right this time.

Having said that ... Ur maths were wrong. Even ur die hard supporters would tell u that many of the 2nd rate talents will scoot home to enjoy their golden years.

Of course, if u only want to hear the good stuff ... u know ... just like the PAP dogs u dislike .. just say so lah.

annoying anon

Anonymous said...

ok lah ... if u think the land of the free and brave have all the answers, i have some inconvenient news:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/24953.html

Personally I believe the european model .. since i dun earn much but people like U will pay more taxes. Deal or No Deal?

Dun answer too quickly. in the glory days when the stars and stripes stood for freedom ... post WW2 and even have spare change in their bank acct, I think the marginal tax rate was like 50-60%. Must confess my memory is hazy but by 70s it was what 70%? U want?

Current model, the serfs die but u live VERY WELL.
Under a more equal european model, less foreigners, every1 ELSE happy\better, U a lot WORSE OFF.

annoying anon troll

Anonymous said...

"I, a retrenched graduate (in my forties) since 2003, am still jobless.

Thank you very much for helping me to remain jobless."

Scary. How to survive for so long without a job in spore.
The cost of living in sg is so high.

And 40+. There are many diploma holders hv been jobless too.

They are more interested in helping FT to get jobs than the locals.
You know why.

Anonymous said...

Someone earlier said Singapore is work in progress and we shouldn't be so critical as we have not seen the end result yet. I say Singapore is one big social experiment. We are the guinea pigs. Some live, some die. The govt is trying different things with different outcomes. If you're one of the "guinea pigs" that die as a result, that is just too bad. No apologies. No sympathy. In the mean time, they reward themselves richly while playing with people's lives. If you want to be exempted from the game, be a high income earner who is not dependent on the govt. Live in freehold private property, with lots of cash for retirement and medical expense, educate your children overseas, you'll be immune. The rest have no choice. Just like playing Russian Roulette.

Anonymous said...

you have enlighten us! the mistake of making baby at 2, was a mistake our gahmen refuse to admit, 30 years later today become OUR fault.
Yes, it is OUR fault indeed, our fault for electing this elite gahmen and their bunch of self centred high paid millionaire ministers. It is our fault for not unding this mistake every 4 years election.

Anonymous said...

when we approach our ministers for help, this is what they will say to us.
If we are lowly educated, he will say it is our fault for not studying hard, for not getting a degree.
If we are highly educated, he will say we are too choosy, expectation too high, should take any job we are offered even if pay is half.
Instead of getting help, we get sarcastic remarks, instead of sympathy, we get blamed for whatever circumstances that are beyond our control. They right we wrong. These are the kind of ministers we singaporeans keep electing. Isn't it time we "wake up the idea", and do the right thing this coming election?

Anonymous said...

was the stop at 2 the only mistake out there?

Anonymous said...

It is true. The PAP started the "stop at two" bullshit. At one stage parents had to declare they were sterlised after 2 to get their children into schools.
Even more amazing I supported Kuan Yew's call for a Malaysian Malaysia belonging to all Malaysians. Today we don't even have a Singaporean Singapore but a ChinesePR, Filipino and expat Indian Singapore.
Nearly 25% of University places go to foriegners who don't even have to bother about National Service.
Now I really hate myself for supporting Lee's Malaysian Malaysia.
Worse I never can order anything at a kopitiam without having a translator present.

Anonymous said...

I don't think it's the issue of people not waking up and vote against PAP. It is the fear of voting against PAP. Some fear because they believe in PAP's propaganda that no one else is more qualified than them to run the country. If opposition wins, the country will be ruined. Some fear PAP will ruin their career, deny their children education, made bankrupt, ISA detention. From time to time there have been such examples to remind the people not to try and oppose. The fact is, such fear is real. The people are awake but they are afraid. The vote means nothing against the power of the state. That's the monster we have created!

Anonymous said...

The fact that the FTs arguments were brought out and trashed in advance (before election time) is to contain the damage the oppositions may bring about lateron. Does this shows where the archilles heed lies?

Anonymous said...

To anon at 22:35

Yes Fear is the root of the issue. LKY turned Sillypore into another North Korea !

Swiss standards of living for the PAP dogs but North Korea standards for the Sillypore serfs !!

Please vote wisely in the next election !!!

Anonymous said...

Gahmen problem become our problem. Our problem become nobody problem . Problem will always be there till it inflated into one big ballon , very soon the gahmen will soon fall under the weight of it . Then is everyone problem again .

Anonymous said...

its true lah what Lucky wrote! that stupid anon troll keep repeating inaccurate inaccurate without any supporting evidence.

Lucky is not the first to talk about this. there were other papers as well.

Imagine a small island has 100 people. 50 males and 50 females aged 30. all were forced NOT to get married due to "scarcity of resources". 50 yrs later that small island need to import workers many many lah. What is so hard NOT to understand.

this topic a long time ago people know already thats why in the 90s many singaporeans migrate already. lucky just highlight only today.

so anon troll if u think u r clever good, just dont think others are stupid ok. We are quiet dont mean we stupid. We just waiting for old man to die thats all.

Cheers
Economist with a heart

Lim Leng Hiong said...

While it is certainly possible that the foreign talent policy will cause problems for Singapore in the distant (~30 years) future, my concern is that the policy may be causing significant social problems right now.

1. Firstly, as Lucky and many others have observed, there is an increasing rift between classes of Singaporeans. Employers prefer the advantages of hiring foreigners if the decision is primarily made on economic considerations. Workers, on the other hand, of course prefer locals to be hired.

This creates distrust among Singaporeans because it could easily be to one's personal advantage to side with foreigners. In fact there might not even be a "Us" vs "Them" scenario, because it is increasing difficult to define what is "Us". We are gradually becoming a nation of "Thems", a nation of strangers with conflicting interests.

2. Next, the government seems to assume that it is in the best interests of foreigners working in Singapore to settle down here and integrate into our society.

If we are talking about the most favoured, highly educated and highly mobile professionals, then we must realize that they can be enticed to come here, but cannot be forced to stay.

The government somehow seems to assume that these people have not talked to their Singaporean colleagues about the situation here, and magically cannot see what is happening to local-born Singaporeans.

3. Lastly, and most importantly - when the foreign talents become Singaporeans, they will also face the same struggle against other incoming foreign talents like any other local-born Singaporean.

Even if they personally enjoy a competitive lifestyle, they can see the predicament of local-born Singaporeans and wonder if they should condemn their own children to this perpetual uphill struggle.

As the social structure of Singapore starts to fragment and the people have less and less in common (apart from making money), they will have less and less reason to stay. I don't understand how all that talk about GDP growth can heal this disintegration process.

Anonymous said...

It seems like he believes growth is the answer to all problems (again!) What will he do to address GINI, retirement and social safety net isuues? The massive influx of cheap labors are causing real pains for many Singaporeans. As a result of the policy, Singapore ranks among the worst on these issues in developed countries.

Anonymous said...

@Azz

Again a fallacy.
Lucky is usually populist and inaccurate but in this case he is correct.

The "stop at 2" was indeed the main cause and u would understand if u were ard at that time.

Oh, and those countries were producing more babies at similar stage of industralization.

This countries have been industrialized for a much longer time.

Singapore is STILL a barely developed\industrialized nation.

But dun worry. U will eventually be correct. Ard 10 years.

_____________________________________


aiyoh, azz is more right than lucky lah

many ways to look at it but comparative example is one of it.

the other way is pragmatism.

if the cost of living keeps going up, how to have more babies?

lifestyle changes as we modernize, who wants more babies?

aiyoh, if assuming lky instead of decreeing we shld stop at 2, he said stop at 20...you can afford meh? lol

aiyah, you ppl hor, if got no better things to do, don't talk nonsense here can?

LOL

Anonymous said...

From 95% to 65% in 20 years. What a shame!

Anonymous said...

The policies adopted by the PAP are for instant results. These policies have hurt us over the years (stop at 2, high-tech industry in the 80s, for example) with long term consequences that we are experiencing now. Getting instant population now may reap some economic results (again the Singapore born Singaporeans will have to sacrifice) but in the long terms we are going to produce more serious long term problems!

Anonymous said...

you blame the old man wrongly lah.

sometimes in politics, you seldom, if at all, disclose your true intention to the public especially on certain critical and strategic policies( changes).

i suspect, the stop at 2, was intended to DISCRIMINATE. if he had put a bullet on the third baby, yes, he is responsible for the declining birth rate.

but hey, there are many who didn't stop at two.

Anonymous said...

if you read the new papers today, you know who these ppl we are "discriminating" against.

on hindsight, it makes sense.

not say i say hor...if he did not implement that, the social problems today will be more severe lah.

talk to any homeowners today and you know where the looming problems will be at in the next 10 to 20 years.

if the garbagemen don't FORCE PEOPLE TO COMMIT TO A HOME BEFORE SELLING, more will be like the stories( the number is already growing) in new papers today.

not say i say....better watch out lah. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

guys, check out this blog

http://taxidiary.blogspot.com/

ex-PRC, now Sporean, ex-Astar prof with a Stanford phd now a taxi driver

Anonymous said...

LKY asked Sillyporeans to stop at two in the old days but he himself have 3 children !!

Isn't obvious there are 2 classes for Singaporeans ?

Swiss standards for PAP dogs & their cronies.
North Korea standards for Sillypore serfs.

Elections are coming, please vote wisely !!

Anonymous said...

vote wisely your head lah.

think out of the box.

we don't want ppl who collect $200k at go.

tested and failed next!

Anonymous said...

meet the SIX new "sceptics"?

fiak, trust the authority to even manage and manufacture SCEPTICS

llllloooooollllll

I AM A SKEPTIC OF THE SKEPTICS HOW????


llllloooooollllll

Anonymous said...

In the grapevine, it's well known that he is a lousy businessman, think suzhou.

For running a country, policies implemented are so out of touch.

For politics, his only great moment is to beat(betray) the person whom have help him.

A poor man who wants to be great.
Everyone in Chinatown knows.

And now living in fear for the lost of his "greatness".

Pity him la.

Anonymous said...

""Probably the only taxi driver in this world with a PhD from Stanford and a proven track record of scientific accomplishments, I was forced out of my research job at the height of my scientific career, and unable to find another one, for reasons I can only describe as something "uniquely Singapore"."

There may many local sporeans with bachelor / master also jobless. Jobs taken away by FTs.
Now even FTs with phd also driving taxi in sg.
What is the point of study so hard?

DanielXX said...

One of the best ways to tell when the great erection is coming is when blogs like LuckyTan's start being closed down for inexplicable reasons. ;-)

Anonymous said...

One of the best ways to tell when the great ejaculation is cummming is when blogs like LuckyTan's gets the authorities excited for inexplicable reasons. ;-)

Anonymous said...

All the cities declined. With or without the stop at 2, it will still decline.

You gave the emperor too much credit.

Anonymous said...

It's the best bet for a 'community' that has only one resource - people.

Anonymous said...

Wow so many postings! People are really worked up over this "highly dependent on foreigners..." issue. The steam build up is really great. Lucky provide a release valve.

But only just - postings! And more postings. And to PAP a harmless release. Just like masturbation is a harmless release, no matter how many times you do a day.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lucky,

Why don't you do a piece on the Graduate Mothers' Scheme? I'm sure many of the young readers here will be interested in knowing our glorious leader's take on making babies in the 80s.

Regards,

An Unlucky Singaporean

Anonymous said...

"Just like masturbation is a harmless release, no matter how many times you do a day."

Glad Lucky has provided you a release valve to tell the world you masturbate daily.

How many times do you do it daily and do you know how many times the PAP does it on a daily basis?

Anonymous said...

LOL

DanielXX said...

I going to massage parlour and get the steam released off by one of our foreign talent. Then I not going to comprain anymore today.

Long live foreign talent! :-)

Anonymous said...

You see what you have done, Anon 7:44.

You just gave Danielxx a Political Erection.

Anonymous said...

Do you know TOC wankers are committing political masturbation by...censoring legitimate posts?

Anonymous said...

you didn't pay ant drool and rub him the right place lah, that's why.

Anonymous said...

yeah he needs to join Danielxx to...release steam...hahaha

Anonymous said...

so Danialxx, you started by telling us about erection. than you followed by telling the world how you use foreign talents to release you in lucky's blog.

what else?

Anonymous said...

Singapore breed.

LOL

Anonymous said...

now Danielxx will be famous for joining ant drool wanking all over the blogs...hahahaha

Anonymous said...

LOL

poor lucky. he doesn't deserve all these gooooooooooo-d stuff.

LOL

Anonymous said...

anon 9:49

Danial is not replying. I think he is ...busy.

Anonymous said...

Danielxx,please tell us more.I am your devoted fan now.lol

Anonymous said...

TOC is fuking itchy itchy for some reason.

DanielXX said...

busy surfing sammyboy now for an appropriate FT release outlet. byeee!!

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHA

i hope you get your money worth.

pap would love to recruit ppl like you.


HAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

hey, pap people don't visit massage parlors. no,no they don't rub rub either like Danielxx. LoL

wait, millions dollars salary go down the drain.LoL

Anonymous said...

awwwwwww...Danielxx, no more erectile dysfunctional political ejaculation?

Anonymous said...

So now we know Danielxx can erect( He claims). Then he tells us (and the world), he makes use of FTs to release him.

The latest revelation is that he visits Sammyboy for his ...fix.

What else, Danielxx?

Anonymous said...

LOL

Localized said...

As long as There are people who benefited from the usage of cheap labour.
The Vicious cycle will never end.

Onlooker is right. There are people setting up straw mans to moot the main topic of of what is being discussed in blogs.
I would not be surprised if these posters are FW themselves.

I'm glad someone took action to do the Tian An Men exhibition but the presumption that all Singaporean are descendent of peasants is laughable and politically naive at the same instance.That why Deng Xiao Ping became silent, he cannot correct the idiot who is trying to score points without a major incident.

Anonymous said...

MM : Sinagpore now highly dependent on foreigners.....


Danielxx, you gave lucky's heading a new twist.ha

Anonymous said...

Response to some points as reported in the ST. (ST quotes are in bold) (Part I)

"Without educated foreign residents ..."

What happened to educated locals? What happened to our education system? Is a lack of numbers or talent in the locals?

"... Singapore faces the threat of a declining economy with a shrinking labour force ... "

And he cited the case of Japan. But Japan have Honda, Sony, Toyota, and many many more. What do we have, even with foreign "talent"?

And why does he not compare to countries of the same population, say Sweden or Israel, or even Hong Kong, and compare these countries' achievements despite the small populations?

And then, more fundamentally, what is wrong with a declining economy?

Is a 6% GDP so important that everything have to be compromised, even selling out your own country? Surely we can live with 3%, can't we?

Why do we need more and more money? We are supposedly constantly and increasingly efficient, and with also a supposedly very efficient civil service, so what is eating up the money? And why despite all thee efficiencies, the poor common people, ie the majority, are paying more and more, from carparking to medical bills to this and that, and remained holed up in cramped spaces that we are ashamed to invite guests to?

" ... stressing the importance of accepting and embracing them."

It is one thing if our hungry and poor neighbour kid wants to come live with us, but it is another if you tell us to move out of our bedrooms to make way for some kid that you think will make money for the family.

I can bet that this kid is merely mercenary.

And also in such a decision, is it not a family decision, and not merely to be ordered by the authoritarian father to not only give up your room, but even to "accept" and "embrace" these mercenaries and strangers?

I can see only resentment, if not a violent family quarrel to erupt soon.

"Immigrants make up for the children Singaporeans are not having ... "

In other words he is putting the blame on us.

Again is it not the peoples' free choice to have or not to have children? And then why should people be merely breeders to feed an economy that is seemingly a black hole?

Can I not have children because I love children, and then I find it an utter abhorrence to hear someone tell me to breed because they need my child merely to be a cog in the machinery of the country, which is being sold away.

Why must Singapore have 6 million people? What if the people do not want to have more than 3 million, for we treasure our spaces more, and that we seek to do with 3 million what 10 million can do. Should we not be focus on these than all these apparently fruitless things we have done so far, such as all the ostentatious glitz on Orchard Road, which serves nobody but the rich?

Anonymous said...

And if an FT becomes a manager or posted to the HR department, would the FT give jobs to Singaporeans, or reserve the jobs exclusively for FTs from his own home town?

I have heard of many cases of PRC and Indian managers who reject any job application forms of locals by default, as they prefer to hire their own countrymen.

So, Singaporeans are now officially further discriminated?

Anonymous said...

Response to some points as reported in the ST. (ST quotes are in bold) (Part II)

"However, MM Lee reassured Singaporeans that the Government is very conscious of protecting their interests. The number of foreign residents would be carefully controlled to preserve the character and values of Singapore society ..."

This is utter rubbish. Merely words. You can show whatever figures you want, but we see reality with our eyes, in our neighbours, in the kopitiams, on the streets, in the buses, etc.

We all know how rules, regulations and laws can be manipulated, and sometimes even with the regulators closing one or two eyes, inadvertantly or not.

You can say you "carefully control" but the dollar is a more potent and more effective motivator and manipulator than any controls can control.

And then what if our interest is we want to keep our bedroom and have no mercenaries moving in?

Really, Kuan Yew, whose interests are served? The people's or Singapore Inc?

Then, there are more subtle and more insidious problems, and the most serious I think is COMPLACENCY.

In other words, it cultivates the attitude, why nurture and labour to develop our talent when you can just go anywhere in the world and buy that talent?

Foreigners who are attracted by such will be mostly motivated by money, ie my point above about being mercenary, ie if you can buy them for money, they will work for money, and will leave when the money elsewhere is bigger.

And for money it is no problem to proclaim oneself to be a proud, patriotic Singaporean who sings all the songs on NDP.

And then if you know what is really going in the schools, you can see that our so-called world class education is merely a "going through the motions". We are not serious about our talent.

And why should we, there is no motivation, need or necessity to do so. Rather the attitude is just to be smart, and rich, and buy the best talent the world can offer.

A good illustration is the "Singapore" Olympic table tennis team. Does it mean anything at all to Singapore that "we" won some medal?

Or perhaps more meaningfully we could have better spent that money, energy, and effort, developing local talent, albeit never winning any medals. But I can see much more Singapore experiencing competition, and be the more really educated in life and for life, more richer experienced, and maybe becoming better people and thereby better Singaporeans.

And I will trade any meaningless metal for all these any time. Of course, like most things, the real and more important things are not seen. Medals you can boast to your boss.

And I can bet that the team members will soon return to China, if they have not already done so.

We don't begrudge them. It is just a job for them.

Rather we bemoan their short sighted, balls carrying, unpatriotic, self-serving and hypocritical employers.

And such are the kind of people so-called Singaporeans have become with so-called foreign talent.

Anonymous said...

Response to some points as reported in the ST. (ST quotes are in bold) (Part I)

"Without educated foreign residents ..."

What happened to educated locals? What happened to our education system? Is a lack of numbers or talent in the locals?
...............................

Why we are short of graduates and need to import foreign ones?

Hand in hand to the stop at 2 policy, we have in the past set about a restrictive policy on quota based tertiary education for our locals.

The failure to produce enough local graduates then has impacted the current market demands severely. ironically, this policy was set up at a time when others in the region were readily churning out tertiary educated graduates.

Hence the need to import graduates from the region now is the results of the failure of our earlier policies.

Anonymous said...

Of course our MM supports foreign talents. They are cheaper, younger and have no NS liabilities.

And most importantly, the foreign talents do not threaten his job. Not unless we all vote to replace MM Lee with an FT who will do the MM job for 1/10 of what MM Lee is currently costing the taxpayer.

What the hell is an MM anyway?

Anonymous said...

When is his son going to say "STFU and let me run the country?! After all, I have so many spare ministers in PMO!"

Anonymous said...

I will gladly support PAP's FT program, if PAP offers to replace their own million-dollar ministers with foreign talents who will do the job for 10% of the current minister pay plus no pension.

PAP should be made to endure the same threats of losing their jobs to FT, since they like to preach so much about having more and more FTs to come steal our jobs and depress our wages.

Anonymous said...

why are we suddenly short of medical doctors, is it that singaporeans do not have what it takes to go through medical school or is it due to the lack of interests to undergo training? definitely not due to the quota intake system that restricts the number of medical doctors graduating each year.

Anonymous said...

stupid mm still think the FT need citizens to help them integrate.

in a certain infamous local semicon fab, a certain eng. section consists solely of the prc manager and prc engineers. you feel like a minority as u see them joke abt how singapore needs them.

they have already taken over lah!
singapore citizens, wake up!

Anonymous said...

We are more interested in what Danielxx thinks of the latest comments.

Danielxx, care to imput or insert your objective view on the latest parlormentary debate on indiscretionary expenses?

Anonymous said...

according to reliable sources, danielxx is in good hands and won't be available for comments anytime soon.

he shall cum when he is ready.

Anonymous said...

"Of course our MM supports foreign talents. They are cheaper, younger and have no NS liabilities."

Danielxx too supports foreign talents.We understand that he is particularly ecstatic over the fact that they are cheaper, younger and have no diseases.

DanielXX said...

I don't know why people are asking me such chim things as the "latest parlormentary debate on indiscretionary expenses". It means nothing to me.

Basically, when my view is that, if there's nothing you can do about something, you might as well make the best use of it (circa Anon@16.41). I trade using this philosophy as well.

Anonymous said...

It doesnt matter who speaks, talk is cheap.

The govt can argue the merits of the FTs system all day long, public opinion will not be positive without themselves seeing the concrete benefits.

The best way to turnaround this situation is to collect a token, tax, levy, surcharge to support the welfare of our aging population directly.

This small token wud swing public opinion in the govt's favor in a big way and very quickly.

Anonymous said...

Damm, MM Lee,

I still lost my jobs over the year with al this FT coming in. I'm in competition with them when applying for a job. Overtime, I find the salary which companies are willing to offer are getting lower than what was offer in 1996. Even though, I lower my expectation, I still lost to those FT. And I am still jobless.

Anonymous said...

so Danielxx is into fresh trade. so where do you ply your fresh trade? happy land?

Anonymous said...

What type of FTs they want?
Are they sincere in wanting to hv FTs?

A former IT manager from HK came to sg. Now a taxi driver.

A former professor from the us came to spore, now a taxi driver.

It seems that SG is Good at turning FTs into taxi drivers.

How about local graduates?
Are they better.

Anonymous said...

Looks like power-be-it is getting worried...

Anonymous said...

So Danielxx, when is your next parlormentary visitation to prepare for the coming great erection?

Bitchhiker said...

"Someone earlier said Singapore is work in progress and we shouldn't be so critical as we have not seen the end result yet. I say Singapore is one big social experiment. We are the guinea pigs." [Anonymous, 14/8/09 22:13]

Damn that Slartibartfast.

Anonymous said...

"Slartibartfast"?

an example of vagueness, like everyone shud know wtf that is...

Anonymous said...

thank you for sharing your sentiments...

they have never thought about WHY people dont want to have kids.

perhaps, i dont want to have kids in singapore. i dont want to bring them up the way i was brought up. i dont want to bring them up as robots. i want them to be free to think as they like, and not be surpressed into a standard mould.

-em

Anonymous said...

thank you for sharing your sentiments...

they have never thought about WHY people dont want to have kids.

perhaps, i dont want to have kids in singapore. i dont want to bring them up the way i was brought up. i dont want to bring them up as robots. i want them to be free to think as they like, and not be surpressed into a standard mould.

-em

Anonymous said...

First it was the non existant letter in court now its the meeting which never changed anyone minds..what's happening?

Sylvester Lim said...

The Stop At 2 program was a disaster for SG as we are paying the price now. I remember reading a study that 270,000 babies were aborted during that period and many women opted for the ligation program which meant that they couldn't give birth even if they wanted to. Those that opted for ligation got priority during primary school registration and flashed their certs like an award.

Women who gave birth to more than two at the time were scolded by the nurse and doctors who encouraged the women to ligate after that.

One question, why didn't the LKY encourage men to go for sterilization instead?

Anonymous said...

If u have the skill to write top not computer programs and maintain it u do not need foreigners... if u r willing to work in construction industry then u do not need foreigners.. If u have high skills in bio tech industry then u do not need foreigners... if u have great skills in economics then u do not need foreigners... It is not only wage it is also skills that count... U cannot have a dump computer programmer just because he is available for low cost... do not cheat people like this

Anonymous said...

"Swetha_Agarwal
Today, 03:17 PM
To all those who ask me to go back to India, my answer is SORRY NO. Why should i go back? . My husband is a computer engineer and singapore needs such foreign talents. He guides and teaches his inferiors in office who are singaporeans. I insist I want best education for my daughter. In the fast develoing world, to talk about citizeh, PR etc is non-sense. These are talk of losers and incompetent people. I will go back to India when singapore becomes rotten in future. So we wont take citizenship here. We have the support of Mr. Lee Kwan Yew, who is a visionary and stateman."

source - http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=23420&page=19

With such audacious and opportunistic PRs like Swetha_Agarwal, does MM really think his wonderful FT policy will work? The MM has been taken for a ride!

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Regarding Switzerland...I hope that the person who said it was like JB was making a joke. The Swiss have SO much better a standard of living than Singaporeans, that Singaporeans look VERY poor by comparison. A typical Swiss person has over three times the purchasing power of a Singaporean. Their country is beautiful, runs very well, is not corrupt, has good education and a great environment...it makes Singapore look like an overcrowded dot filled with unhappy people: oh, wait, that is just what it is.

Singapore will NEVER match Switzerland...not ever. I am convinced of that...so all this local talk of Swiss standards is a sick joke. A poor person in Switzerland (remember their three fold purchasing power advantage) is much better off than an average Singaporean.

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