Thursday, January 28, 2010

MM Lee : You must be daft!

"As Singaporeans lament about rising flat prices, he said they ought to understand the Government sells them at a subsidised price, below market rate, so that they can own an asset that will appreciate in value over the years. It adds to their wealth and this is asset-enhancing policy Mr Lee believes citizens should not find fault with. If they do, they must be 'daft', he said at a dialogue during a housing conference as part of a series of events to mark the Housing Board's (HDB) 50th anniversary." - ChannelnewsAsia[Link]

Hardly a week goes by without our leaders demeaning ordinary Singaporeans. 'Daft' means stupid. MM Lee said that those who are unhappy with rising HDB prices are stupid - which means most netizens, house hunters for whom prices have risen beyond their reach...and many ordinary Singaporeans are stupid. Very interesting remark especially after the world just had the biggest financial crisis in the past 70 years caused by American banks that believed housing prices can only go up. Housing prices should rise in tandem with sustainable increases in median income. If it rises faster than income, it means that home buyers have to take up more debt to service their housing loans. It does not take rocket science to tell you that debt levels cannot keep rising and at some point prices have to come down. The problem with fast rising property prices is that it is not sustainable and many will be crushed when it comes down.

In 1998, a woman wrote to the ST forum about how she bought a new flat from HDB at the height of the housing bubble in 1996 but end up with a loss of $80-$100K a few years later because new flats sold by HDB in her area had fallen by that amount. Well I think it is really daft to think that property prices are a one way street. Just look at Japan after their property prices rose continuously for decades to hit a high in 1991:


35 comments:

Anonymous said...

MM Lee is very confident that PAP will again win 98% or even 100% seats at next election, no matter how he scold or belittle Singaporeans.

Other things he may not know or get it wrong but election outcome he definitely knows and will never get it wrong. Maybe he got some secret technique to be able to know and which the opposition and other lesser mortals do not and will not know.

MM SZ said...

Linked under, 'Housing'. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

This old man has been living in his luxurious vacuum for too long. He is errors proned but his hides are so thick or his senses are so dull or both, that he still thinks he speaks like a sage. Give him a shocker as a present to bring to his grave.

Anonymous said...

and now we have this god damn bubble, what do we do? Deflate it?

Run away inflation?

Anonymous said...

MM Lee, you must be blind as you don't see the people cry;

You must be sick as your words always stink.

You must be selfish as you only shed tears for your wife and son;

You must be cursed as you have lost the ability to love.

Anonymous said...

See how this old fart brainwash himself with his own twisted logic. No wonder the whole of government run on twisted logic.

To begin with, this old fart endorse and support free market because only so the price of HDB and property rise sharply to the point of enormous profit for him and leegime. Then he say that gov's subsidy help to make flat affordable ? The large rise increase in price of HDB and property far outstripe any value of subsidy, and the profit these buggers get already cover the subsidy, and even then the remaining is enough to make old fart laugh incessantly. So this is what old fart has in mind to put in mBt to fool the citizens.

Even more money comes into their pockets when property tax increase. Why are we feeding these bastards with so much money when we aren't going to sell our flat ?

To old fart, his GREED IS GOOD.

Anonymous said...

i'm so tired of being sold the idea that we're buying hdb at a "subsidized" rate.

gosh, i am running a trading business and i find that i often have to sell at a "subsidized" rate to undercut my competitors. i din know i was so charitable!

the old man has truly reached the dodo-level. he is obselete and does not understand current times. on top of that, he has assumed the hubris of a man who thinks the world of himself.

yes, let's all give him a shocker that sends him to his grave.

sgcynic said...

"MM Lee is very confident that PAP will again win 98% or even 100% seats at next election, no matter how he scold or belittle Singaporeans."

He must be daft then.

He thought HDB flats can be mortgaged to obtain loans from banks. He must be senile? LOL. It raises my concern for if he gets his facts wrong, then he might be pushing a policy that is based on awrong premise.

Anonymous said...

What if FTs (or PRs) bought properties & speculate??
If they win, they pocket the big gains.
If they lose, just run road like had happened in Dubai??
In the end, who lose out???

Anonymous said...

I don't take advice from people who served in the Kempeitai so that they themselves can eat and live better at the expense of other people's suffering.

I must be daft to vote for such a person.

Lim Leng Hiong said...

Anon 23:51, come on, MM Lee is not that confident.

"We've grown in the last five years by just importing labour. Now, the people feel uncomfortable, there are too many foreigners.

Trains are overcrowded with foreigners, buses too, property prices have gone up because foreigners with permanent residence are buying into the market.

The answer is simple: We check the flow of foreigners, raise your productivity, do the job better, so that instead of two workers, eventually you'll do it with one worker, like the Japanese do." - MM Lee 28 Jan 2010

Compare and contrast with:

"Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew yesterday warned Singaporeans of the dangers of closing the country's door to foreign talent.

Without educated foreign residents, Singapore faces the threat of a declining economy with a shrinking labour force, he said in a speech stressing the importance of accepting and embracing them.

Immigrants make up for the children Singaporeans are not having, he said.

To shut them out is to risk an unwelcome scenario similar to that confronting Japan's greying population: 'They refuse to accept immigrants, so their economy is feeble and lacks vitality.'" - ST 16 Aug 2009

Like Japan, not like Japan... tra-la-la-la?

Anon 23:51, you seem to be overconfident of MM Lee's confidence!

Come on, nobody "definitely knows" an election outcome, not even you, unless it's YOUR job to fix the results.

Anonymous said...

I don't know why no one thinks LKY is not just senile, he's plain stark raving mad. He says one thing today and contradicts himself tomorrow. Only stupid people listen to him and it looks like we have a lot of stupid people in Singapore no? He should be shamed and hanged for betraying his own country and his people for his own greedy means. And we pay $3 mil a year to belittle and talk bad about Singaporeans to the whole world. He needs to be persecuted and disciplined. 

Anonymous said...

Going by his arguments, property investment is a SURE bet. Can we have a sure profit guarantee with every property purchase?

Anonymous said...

I totally dislike the idea he has that Singaporeans want to see property prices going up, up, up. What about our kids? Do Singaporeans want to see their children saddle with more debts for their HDB flats, so that they can profit from it.... this is ridiculous.

enough of daft said...

the 66% who cannot see beyond their rice bowl or HDB flat voted for the PAP over and over again....
that is really daft Mr LKY !

Anonymous said...

Interesting was, they kept on talking about unlocking the value of HDB flat. To unlock the value means that we have to sell it. If we sell it, we have to buy another one. Otherwise, where will we stay if we don't buy another flat?

Anonymous said...

Unlocking the value of a flat means when you are old, retired and has no income, you sell back to HDB. But they will not pay you a lump sum cash.

Instead, they pay you a small amount say $300 every month for as long as you live, something like the annuity. And you also can continue to stay in your flat as well as receive some money.

However the scheme now applies only to old folks above certain age with 3 rm or smaller flats which have been paid up and with a remaining lease of 60+ years left.

Anonymous said...

Its not "must be daft" it is "Have been daft" to have kept you in power so that you and your family can now earn millions while losing so much of the public's money without a trace of accountability.

Anonymous said...

wah,,a lot of hypocrites here. hehe

Alan Wong said...

Air hostess won ballot for HDB flat at the Pinnacles told by MM to remember to vote for PAP.

So the old man is now admitting the fact that the govt is giving eligible Singaporeans a 'subsidised' HDB flat so that they can in turn remember to vote for PAP.

Is that not vote buying ? So vote buying for PAP is OK and legal ?

What kind of crap is that ?

Anonymous said...

@LimLH
you said:"Come on, nobody "definitely knows" an election outcome, not even you, unless it's YOUR job to fix the results."

You will be surprised how good the PAP grassroots are. I would say, they can guage the votes to an accuraccy of about +/- 5%.

I had voted for the oppositions all my life and had been wondering aboout this strength of the PAP for quite sometimes.

These grassroots are the eyes and ears of the PAP on the ground. They are well organized( of cos, using taxpayers' money) and I think are about 20,000 strong. how do you expect the opposition to fight with them.

That is also why after losing PP and Hougang, they die die must hold on to the control of the grassroots, if not their chance of winning back these 2 wards are even slimmer. I think CST and LTK had built a good grassroot foundations after they won the wards, and that is why they managed to hold on to the 2 seats.

The grassroots people are always on the ground and they can gauge the sentiment of the heartland voters quite accurately. When PAP dare call for elections, that means they have the confidence for the win.

Yes, the internet had given them some problem recently, but as a whole, they will still win quite easily. I say this time round, it will be 60%-40% or there about, and as for the seats, the oppositions can consider a major victory if they win about 4-5 SMCs.

Anonymous said...

You can get the price index for HDB Resale flats from the following URL

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampuadp.nsf/0/RS_PriceIndex/$file/Price%20Indices%20for%20Resale%20HDB%20Flats%204Q(Actual)09.pdf

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampuadp.nsf
/0/RS_PriceIndex/$file
/Price%20Indices%20for%20Resale
%20HDB%20Flats%204Q(Actual)09.pdf

From 2005Q4 to 2009Q4, the index rose 50% from around 100 to around 150. How many of the working-class folks have their pay increased by 50%, without promotion?

Maybe only the PAP MIW? We need to break their more than 2/3 dominance at the parliament for them to listen and act to the benefit of the common men. Vote for any opposition in the next election.

Anonymous said...

Something is wrong when S'poreans do not want to have children or have more than one. It means they don't see benefit of sinking their roots here. Something is wrong when S'poreans begin to see housing prices is becoming more unaffordable. It will make them think twice about living here for the long-term. The only solution? Import more foreigners, which will undoubtedly exacerbate the housing problems.

Anonymous said...

He thought HDB flats can be mortgaged to obtain loans from banks.

MM is always ahead of time. I think this will be a likely scenario in the future. Singaporeans have NOTHING NOW. Only way and thing left to maintain the FIRST WORLD LIFESTYLE.

Anonymous said...

"I don't know why no one thinks LKY is not just senile, he's plain stark raving mad."

He has apparently forgotten the respect that he earned in the past was only applicable for singapore of past with its attending conditions.

Those conditions have changed & new breed of singaporeans are beset with new sets of challenges where they will not longer give the kind of infantile awe unquestioningly to those self-anointed elites.

Anonymous said...

"Something is wrong when S'poreans begin to see housing prices is becoming more unaffordable."

Right pocket to left pocket ?

Now whose right pocket and to whose left pocket ?

Now who will say it is affordable and who will say it is unaffordable ?

This housing matter will be THE DEFINING ISSUE. The mechanics of the whole flow (as in prices) will spread like wild fire for a lot of people to know.

Anonymous said...

The Lee Family are Singapore's very own self-made millinaire politicians; who uses the elder Lee's power control tactics to suppress accountability using no-declaration and non-transparency.

They will definitely win the next election for sure. If you're already know that you're gonna win via walkovers before even setting up the booth, it is not far-fetched for you to insult the same voters who voted you in as "daft". His arrogance comes from the fact that he tweaked by gerryy-mandering, among other things, the election system. And his fear tactics of suppressing human rights of freedom to have an opinion or critise the government openly is a sign that he is having a tough time to suppress the floodgates of younger voters who no longer find the PAP party popular anymore.

The Pariah said...

According to URA statistics, Singapore has a mutant 3-hump camel running loose.

There were 3 booms-and-busts within 13 years from 4Q1995 through 4Q2008.


Check out the URA graph in my Oct 2009 blog entry at www.singaporeenbloc.blogspot.com

C K said...

I'm sorry, but I don't seem to see the word 'daft' on the article in the CNA link provided. Or am I missing something here?

I know that's not the main issue here but still... :)

Anonymous said...

singaporeans are daft. very daft. how do you explain the fact that PAP remains in power in all these years? I do think that singaporeans deserve to be extinct.

Lim Leng Hiong said...

"I'm sorry, but I don't seem to see the word 'daft' on the article in the CNA link provided. Or am I missing something here?"

Hi CK, try this link.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1033446/1/.html

Excerpt:

Mr Lee was also asked for his take on a recent media report that at least three opposition parties were eyeing National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan's ward with the aim of making public housing affordability an election issue.

He explained: "What is affordabilty? From the point of view of the buyer? And the government that is subsidising you? The government has to price it at a level that is fair to the revenue it is collecting and fair to the individual, not only the present buyer but past and future buyers. If Mr Mah is unable to defend himself, he deserves to lose.

"No country in the world has given its citizens and families an asset as valuable as what we have given every family here. And if you say that policy is at fault, you must be daft."

Anonymous said...

Lee Kuan Yew should just go axile in some remote island in the pacific ocean. He has out-lived his usefulness and purpose.

Sad to see Singaporeans being treated like shit by the bloody old fool!

yangpunk said...

Come now folks...you must be daft not to understand what our venerable MM Lee meant when he said HDB flats are heavily subsidised.

What he means is if the government don't allocate the land to HDB to build HDB flats than they would sell it in the open market for private developers to build condos and sell at 3-4 times higher psf compared to HDB prices. The difference in price is the OPPORTUNITY LOSS = GOVT SUBSIDY. See now you know why our ministers are the highest paid in the world and worth every cent they are paid!

Didn't you all read Ng Teng Fong's property investment philosophy? Something like open up the map of the world, look for countries where you can only see the name and NOT the country...like our little red dot! Property value in such countries will guarantee to rise in the long run.

I can vouch for that. A $18k house when I was still running around catching spider is worth $2 mil to day! But you must not speculate lest you are caught buying at the short peak period and have to hold during the loooong correction of 7 - 10 years! Should you lose your job and can't afford to service your mortgage then let the bank foreclose your loan and bankrupt you lor!

Oh, those days 1 plate of char kuay teow cost 10 cts without egg and 20 cts with egg...today $3.00?

And the CPF...the most ingenious state enforced savings system in the whole world... a system that enables every working adult with family to own a roof over their head and spend the rest of their working life paying off the mortgage loan. Then with their home taken care of, they can afford to pay a 300% premium for their set of wheels in order to spend a good part of their mornings and evenings driving (or rather crawling) to and from office on the EXPRESSway!

Who says there are poor and unemployed Singaporean? Don't we have to import a few hundred thousands of workers from our neighbouring countries to do what no Singaporean are prepared to do?

Yup Singaporeans, you deserve to be labelled "daft" if you don't continue to keep our government in power!

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