Monday, February 08, 2010

Beware of Religious Chauvinism....

10 years ago, I went to Jerusalem with a group of friends many of whom were Christians . We were taken around by a local tour guide who had an encyclopedic knowledge of the place -he was also very charismatic, entertaining and articulate. We visited biblical places such as the room where the Last Supper was believed to be held, where Christ was cruxified - "99.9% certainty" of the location being right was what the guide told us - Mount of Olives and many places described in the Bible. The tour ended with a visit to Bethlehem which was located in a Palestinian administered area accessible only because tensions with Israelis had temporarily subsided. The birth of Christ in Bethlehem fulfil one of the prophesies in the Old Testament written hundreds of years before his birth. The guide told us that Jesus fulfiled a total of 60 old testament prophesies (wow!). At that point I could feel the faith of the Christians in the tour group renewed and strengthened. Confronted by this compelling evidence and perhaps I was a tad too sensitive, I felt the my Christian friends were looking at me and their eyes were saying.."...still don't believe huh....".

Feeling a bit of pressure and needing to digest all I've seen and heard for the day, I decided to sit next to the guide who was also the driver on the way back to the hotel. The rest of the tour group was sitting behind. I felt a lot more relax as the refreshing cool wind from the window relieved some of tension I was feeling....it was then when I realised that the guide who showed us all the evidence was actually Jewish and was not a believer. How can it be? I turned to the guide to ask him, "Since 60 Old Testament prophesies were fulfilled by Jesus and there is so much compelling evidence, why haven't you and other Jews converted to Christianity...?". The guide turned to me and whispered......


I'll tell you what he whispered to me later when I come back to complete this posting. I share this experience of mine, to tell you something about the importance of faith, what is faith and what the truth means to different people and why we should respect each others beliefs although we may disagree...and why we should not be so arrogant to think we possess the absolute truth.

This is what the guide whispered to me, "I didn't tell you about the prophesies that were not fulfilled...."[Link]( some of commenters cleverly figured it out before I posted this). See the problem with me is I ask too many questions preventing me from taking a leap of faith. Once you leap to the other side, you start to view everything in a different light and the truth become evident in ways you cannot imagine - there are explanations for the good and bad things that happen to you. The dream girl you met, fell in love with and married ...must have been preordained. Serious illness is a test of your faith and recovery brings a fuller and deeper appreciation of the value and sanctity of human life. Religious faith gives you the meaningful answers to questions...answers that you can never have and accept without faith. Sad to say people like me who are unable to make this leap of faith have to through life's trials and tribulations unassured that the outcomes are the result of divine will...these tribulations may leave us in dispair. Religious faith is therefore important and those with faith are indeed blessed.

As for the TRUTH, it depends on which religion you leap into. Religious truth unlike scientific truth exist for the purpose of transforming hearts. Religious truth is based on beliefs - faith, hope and love.....it is true because you want it to be true. Who does not want life after death? Who does not want evil to be punished and good to be rewarded? Who does not want to be forgiven for doing wrong? Different religions offer different answers to questions that science cannot answer meaningfully and satisfactorily. When it comes to religious truth, we have a choice what we want to believe. All major religions are true for their believers and trying shake another person's faith by ridiculing his religion and what he feels is true in his heart can only result in a climate of hate. Rony Tan did cross the line but he has also apologised to those he offended. All major religions teach their followers to be forgiving....and doing what is right is a testimony to your faith .... your ability to overcome the hatred in your heart, forgive those who have offended you and show generosity to those who have apologised will be a demonstration that your heart has been transformed by your religious beliefs.
---------------------------------
Pastor's comments on Buddhism/Taoism "inappropriate & unacceptable": MHA
Posted: 08 February 2010 2345 hrs

SINGAPORE: The Internal Security Department (ISD) has called up Pastor Rony Tan of Lighthouse Evangelism in connection with his comments and insinuations about Buddhism and Taoism at his church sessions.

These sessions were video-recorded and made available on Lighthouse Evangelism's website. Video clips of these sessions subsequently became available on YouTube and other websites.

The Ministry of Home Affairs said Pastor Tan's comments were highly inappropriate and unacceptable as they trivialised and insulted the beliefs of Buddhists and Taoists.

They can also give rise to tension and conflict between the Buddhist/Taoist and Christian communities.

ISD told Pastor Tan that in preaching or proselytising his faith, he must not run down other religions, and must be mindful of the sensitivities of other religions.

Pastor Tan has expressed his deepest apologies and remorse. He deeply regrets that he has been insensitive and offensive towards the Buddhist and Taoist faiths, and that his comments have saddened and hurt their followers.

He has promised that it will never happen again and has also affirmed that he will tell his members to respect other beliefs and build a harmonious Singapore.

- CNA/ir
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1036211/1/.html


123 comments:

yamizi said...

Hi Lucky,

I have penned my thoughts for this.

http://yamizi.blogspot.com/2010/02/rony-tan-really-have-his-god-to-thank.html

Anonymous said...

"and why we should not be so arrogant to think we possess the absolute truth"

The irony with such absolute truth claims, like the one Lucky stated above, is that they are equally "arrogant", assuming that all absolute claims are in themselves arrogant :)

Ghost said...

Pastor Tan is lucky he's a Christian. If he is a Muslim saying the same things, the reaction will NOT be so muted.

Anonymous said...

"Pastor Tan is lucky he's a Christian. If he is a Muslim saying the same things, the reaction will NOT be so muted."

Interesting comment, what does it mean? :)

Anonymous said...

Got to agree with Ghost. If the same comments were made by a Muslim, the ISA would probably be used to detain the guy indefinitely pn the grounds he was a terrorist.

And I guess that the only reason why Rory was not arrested was because of the regime's fear of losing the Christian vote.

Anonymous said...

agreed - all those in ISA are Muslims - one an ex-RI chap who happened to surf the internet and was Radicalised.....

And you wonder who is the radical one :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Lucky!

I dont' agree with you that religious views are to be respected. On what grounds should we pay undue deference to religion in our discourse? All other discourses do not have this blanket rule. Why should we pander to the religious? I personally believe religion teachers people to do bad things. Tell me a moral act which can only be done by a christian and not by any other human? Nothing. But tell me a harm that can only be done because of religious beliefs and you can give me a dime and dozen. Religion does not have a priviledge to expect others who do not share their beliefs to defer to it. Precisely because it does not hold absolute truth, that we shouldn't allow it more weight than in any other discussion. If the reason is that we should not offend christians, I would like to point out it is Christ that I have a problem with. If Christ is real, christians should not take offence on remarks made on christ. Since Christ is real and living, let Christ defend himself. Christians should be arrogant enough to be the mouth piece for Christ.

Anonymous said...

I believe Anon 10.43 is the PAP troll who has been trolling Lucky's blog with his horrendous Chinglish, so I hope that the other readers do not feed the troll.

Anonymous said...

I am a Christian who has lost much enthusiasm for going to church. I still regard myself as a Christian.

I am currently a sleeping member of a "mega-church". After many years of attending church, I am rather disillusioned.

In the church, I learnt that whatever I do is never enough. God is never happy enough. We are asked to sacrifice more and more.

I have seen pastors who gave alot in that church, only to be booted out because of church politics.

I have seen my own church waste so much of its time and money to reorganize itself like an MLM.

I have seen leaders who insist on giving themselves flashy titles, and if you speak against them, they will pronounce judgement on you like "touch not the annointed of God" or "rebellion is akin to witchcraft".

I have witness church leaders who make prophecies, and when the prophecies turn out to be rubbish, they conveniently quote Aachan's sin to explain why things went wrong. For the uninformed, Aachan was a man who sinned, and because of one man's sin, the whole community had to be punished. Basically, the leaders pushed the blame on some unknown sabo-king, who sabo the entire church by disbelief.

Was Pastor Rodney able to move the police as well as he could move his audience? I guess not. Basically, I feel that organized religion today is just a means to manipulate the masses for personal gain.

So much for the "presence of God".

I believe in God nonetheless. There had been miracles in my life. But it doesn't mean I must be a religious nut.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 9/2/10 10:55: Basically, I feel that organized religion today is just a means to manipulate the masses for personal gain.

I share the view that organized religon is just a means to manipulate the masses. Then again, it has happened since ancient times. E.g. Roman Catholism was a means for Roman emperor to control its Christian subjects. E.g. Confucianism used in the old courts of China, and it was even quoted by an old man-in-white in Singapore.

My 2 cents is one should believe whatever one wants, but beware of group dynamics. The flaw lies with the humans in groups.

Anonymous said...

I am extremely concerned that the government seems to be very tolerant of some of the dangerous activities of evangelical Christians. Too often these people have wrongly attack and ridicule other religions in order to convince their converts and to get new converts. I have relatives who refused to eat meals served at home by their Buddhist/Taoist parents. They told their parents that their pastors told them to do that as things used by Buddhists/Taoist are touched by demons.

Anonymous said...

Every christian needs to realise that they are atheistic to some other religion's God. Currently, the American churches are targeting Asia as many in the West do not believe seriously in christianity anymore. Nowadays, people do not see the reason for a need to believe in a God or Santa Claus. You'll grow out of it as you get older. What I find ridiculous is that many christians and moslems who subscribe to a God, are very irrational and get exceptionally emotional when you talk to them about their religion. All of a sudden, they think that you're a devil reincarnate attempting to dismantle their faith in God. I grew up as a Moslem. But when I got to university, I realised through my logical mind that this Islamic belief is bullcrap. And I don't respect bullshit. I am a much better person than I used to be. In the first place, I didn't have a choice as my parents were Moslems. But they were arrogant and stupid moslems to begin with cos they insisted that they're always right even when they can't explain their faith. I respect my relationships but I personally think those who subscribe to this bullcrap of an invisible man up in the heavens or a personal god to be delusional. That includes City Harvest Church and New Creation church wannabes.

Anonymous said...

what Anonymous at 9/2/10 10:55 is very true.

isn't PAP also a form of church since LKY once said that they adopted the vatican way of selecting leaders.

modified from Anonymous at 9/2/10 10:55
I am currently a sleeping member of a "PAP". After many years of attending PAP AGM, I am rather disillusioned.

In PAP, I learnt that whatever I do is never enough. LKY is never happy enough. We are asked to sacrifice more and more.

I have seen MP who gave a lot in PAP, only to be booted out because of politics.

I have seen my own PAP waste so much of its time and money to reorganize itself like an MLM.

I have seen leaders who insist on giving themselves flashy titles, and if you speak against them, they will pronounce judgement on you like "touch not the annointed of LKY" or "rebellion is akin to witchcraft".

I have witness PAP leaders who make prophecies, and when the prophecies turn out to be rubbish, they conveniently quote Aachan's sin to explain why things went wrong. For the uninformed, Aachan was a man who sinned, and because of one man's sin, the whole community had to be punished. Basically, the leaders pushed the blame on some unknown sabo-king, who sabo the entire PAP by disbelief.

Basically, I feel that organized PAP today is just a means to manipulate the masses for personal gain.

Anonymous said...

Mr Tan,

Before hearing what the driver had told you, let me share something about a friend of mine who is a Malay/muslim.

We came to know each other during a working trip to HK. He speaks a bit of Mandarin and Cantonese too. A Singapore U grad in the late 60's.

He has no problem eating dim sum, roast pork and other food with us. He also drank some beer. He continued such behaviour long after the trip was over. Occasionally, we also had teochew porridge.

He, being a muslim, celebrates Hari Raya and etc. Without fail, he will attend prayer at Mosque every friday.

One day I asked him, as a muslim why do you eat all the food that was actually prohibited by your religion. He told me that he followed the core value of the religion. When he was alone, he will never take halal food. However, when there were presence of friends; who were non muslims, he would not let his relgion come in the way between him and his friends.

Anonymous said...

"isn't PAP also a form of church since LKY once said that they adopted the vatican way of selecting leaders.

Basically, I feel that organized PAP today is just a means to manipulate the masses for personal gain."

Interesting comment. What does that mean? :)

Onlooker said...

Ghost is right.

in simpler term: Chinese christian esp the "Meritocratic" ones can make seditious religious remarks.

While Indian and malays can make racist remark against chinese.but Chinese cannot do that unless they are foreigners.(ironic isn't it)

And the "Mandated" PAPer MPs/Civil service/elite Children(Eric how,Wee shu min) can make elitist seditious remark without ever facing any repercussions at all from the present garment.

Interesting ,no?

even simpler Explaination: Meritocracy.
ie All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

or Subverted equality.
Where is the same treatment for the 3 young people who post "seditious" remark on facebook.

Onlooker said...

Ghost is right.

in simpler term: Chinese christian esp the "Meritocratic" ones can make seditious religious remarks.

While Indian and malays can make racist remark against chinese.but Chinese cannot do that unless they are foreigners.(ironic isn't it)

And the "Mandated" PAPer MPs/Civil service/elite Children(Eric how,Wee shu min) can make elitist seditious remark without ever facing any repercussions at all from the present garment.

Interesting ,no?

even simpler Explaination: Meritocracy.
ie All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

or Subverted equality.
Where is the same treatment for the 3 young people who post "seditious" remark on facebook.

Onlooker said...

oops sorry double post.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Rony is not sorry about what he said. Don't fall for his stupid public apology. He is only sorry about being caught red-handed ridiculing other people's beliefs.

Most churches (and mosques) openly equate worshipping many gods as idolatry, and openly despise such practices. We call it "paganism".

Only a small handful of Christians (and Muslims) are respectful of other people's faith.

It is easier for a Taoist to tolerate a Christian than for a Christian to tolerate a Taoist. In Taoism, there are many gods. Jehovah is just another god. In Christianity, there is only room for 1 god.

Pastor Rony won't change his views about Chinese religion after this incident. He would just learn to be more discreet when passing remarks about other religions.

BTW, why isn't Pastor Rony being charged for sedition, while 3 small-fries are being charged for their FaceBook remarks?

Does Pastor Rony's greater standing in society give him special privileges?

Anonymous said...

"And I guess that the only reason why Rory was not arrested was because of the regime's fear of losing the Christian vote."



The current PAP is already a pseudo-Republican party. All that is left to complete the picture is for it to embrace the religious right wing. Muahahaha! *cue evil laughter*

Anonymous said...

you can't bring a man of god down and not drag ALL the others down lah.

wait hor, judges kowbaykowboo how? wait civil servants no church to go how?

oh no, wait pap mps also end up in jail how? LOL

Ape said...

To Anon 10:55

Ape is a "backslider" in the eyes of Christians but ape heard a very encouraging phrase from a Christian friend. Ape paraphrase below:-

Do not let the errors of man fail your faith because it is human to err. God does not fail you. Just keep your faith in Him.

Very encouraging... but ape is still a backslider in the eyes of a Christian.

Anonymous said...

"even simpler Explaination: Meritocracy.
ie All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Interesting comment. What does that mean? :)

Anonymous said...

Anon 9/2/10 15:29

What would you do if you were in Rony's position? SHIT and wet the floor?

Anonymous said...

Spirituality is one thing. Religion, as its practiced now, is another.

Usually, the so-called "arrogant" ones are typically the Abrahamic religion - Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Anonymous said...

"God does not fail you. Just keep your faith in Him."

but your leaders failed god, so will you.

hmm...i distinctively heard the holy spirit whispers...i can DO ALL THINGS through christ jesus...when i am WEAK, than am I STRONG. if God is for me, who can be AGAINST me? and and...wow so many. cant remember all...how about..david verses an ant? LOL

looks like somebody .....shiiiited badly??? hahahahahaha

not just somebody but SOMEBODY. oh no, not just SOMEBODY but MANY BODIES. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

ouch ouch ouch

Anonymous said...

Strange huh? Very mild reaction from ISD

By the way, why don’t the Christians believe in Jesus Christ and God and the Holy Spirit FIRST HAND by bypassing the MIDDLE MAN and that way they can be CHEAPER (save all your 10% deductions from salary), BETTER (direct communication with GOD and nothing lost in translation) , FASTER (any miracles happen here and now)… TOO COMMERCIAL AND TOO MUCH $$$$ involved. I think religion ALREADY LOST THE ORIGINAL FLAVOURS.

I am real scared when these MEGACHURHES become excessively aggressive and strong….I still need to vote PAP and ISA is very much needed. They are secular and rational. Thank you for giving us a safe place to live and moderate these ZEALOTS.

Anonymous said...

Evangelical Christians are running some of the most successful scams. Their followers are all being branwashed to pay extortion money without knowing. They will be better off praying at home.

Alan Wong said...

Has anyone ever wondered whether some people become religious evangelists only because of the continous good life and riches which they can receive from such vocations which they otherwise would not be able to achieved basing on their on merit alone ?

At the extreme end, they are just nothing better than conmen out to deceive other vulnerable people who turn to religion in order to try to seek solutions to their problems in life.

If these religious cloakmen goes on to promote their evangelism into some commercial enterprise in order that it will bring more riches or a luxurious life like living in a condominium and driving flashy cars, what does this tell you about the moral standards of such people ?

At the end of the day, it is still a money-making business for their own interests.

Anonymous said...

All the years of secular education does nothing from them being brainwashed.

I think talking bad things about PAP policies and grudges are still better CHEAPER way of letting go our stress and facing lives problems. At least many supporters here HAHAHA.

Anonymous said...

neber say grace lah that's why no power.

maybe neber tithe enough lah can kena bad luck.

Anonymous said...

preach wrong sermon lah. preach favor. unmerited favor got much money come one and no police come catch you one

Anonymous said...

favor can buy or not? maybe pay the gods more money more favor?

wait jail. lol.

Anonymous said...

I don't know what Pastor Tan said about Buddhism, since I didn't bother to watching the videos. But I am very confident that no matter what he said, he could not have said that Buddhism is a cruel/brutal/unloving religion. Sure, many "Buddhists"/"Taoists" have killed, but none have done so in the name of Buddhism - that's because they can't even if they want to, since there is no relevant passage for them to quote.

Now I ask: is it better for a religion to be "accused" of being a superstitious practice, or a barbaric practice. lol

Reason for Leniency said...

Some of you are puzzled why Rony Tan was let off lightly.

This is why!: "In deep gratitude to our protective and caring government all these 43 years..." (read "more info" on the right)

This is call "Insurance". Rony Tan has paid the required "insurance premium" and so now he is "insured".

Ming Yi, on the other hand, did not pay his insurance premium. lol

Anonymous said...

his network more powerful lah.

Anonymous said...

quanxi..hehe

Anonymous said...

The guide turned to me and whispered......

"But there are 120 prophesies that he did not fulfill!"

or

"Only they think the 60 prophesies have been fulfilled. As far as I am concerned, he has fulfilled none"

Or

"One of the prophesy stated that Christ is merely a ... and not a ...."

Anonymous said...

Hi Lucky

A simple google can get u the answers on why your guide don't believe in the things he said.

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2005/03/Why-Jews-Dont-Accept-Jesus.aspx

No need to fret on such issues, bro

Anonymous said...

Just look at what happened to Aware.

Anonymous said...

A documentary was made a few years ago on the Untold Stories of Jesus based on a book written by a Russian. I saw the documentary. The gist is that there were void of a few years in the detailed story of the early life of Jesus. This Russian provide circumstancial evidences to prove that Jesus spend those years in the Indian subcontinent. More specifically area where Buddha orignated which is current Nepal. The author speculated that Jesus learned the teaching of Buddha and incorporated some of them into his own teaching. Unfortunately I did not make a copy of the documentary. Perhaps I should check with SBS Australia to see if they still have it.

Anonymous said...

Goggle The untold story of jesus and here is one result:
http://www.smashwords.com/books/download/3214/6/latest/1/0/the-untold-story-of-jesus.txt

Anonymous said...

He is a disgrace to all Christians, and is a piece of bullshit.

He needs a good spanking

The Sun Shines On said...

The Buddhist Federation officially accepted the apology but the ball is in their court to press charges if that is how the public wants it to play out. That however would mean only more tension.

Anonymous said...

Attention All Lucky fans

http://chemgen.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/sorry-no-count-playground-taunt/

this guy is insulting our hero!
Lets flame him!

... seriously Mr Lucky ... are you sure you want to go into this divisive religious stuff? Our primary/secondary kids are being forced to learn "political education" while u are going on a jihad ...

Anonymous said...

Mr Anon 9/2/10 21:31

Jesus was a Jew.
And had no money.
The chances of him trekking to Nepal (and back alive) to learn Buddhism is the same as Sir Alex managing Liverpool to the Premier League.
Captained by Gary Neville.
And winning the title on the last day of the season at Old Trafford with the winning goal coming at the 7th min of added time. From Lucas' solo goal .. dribbling past the entire ManYoo team ala Maradona.

I think we really do not want Mr Lucky to sprout more religious garbage.

Anonymous said...

If there are any Buddhists here, be at peace. "To understand everything is to forgive everything". Have your say then let the law of moral causation, Karma spin its path.

Anonymous said...

justice must be perceived to be fair. a leader influential role must be held accountable otherwise, cynicism will take root and corruption will eat into the fabric of our society.

Anonymous said...

http://chemgen.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/sorry-no-count-playground-taunt/



Talk cock lah! These sermons are pre-planned and prepared. Dumb or not he is unfit to be a religious leader.

Anonymous said...

To:Mr Anon 9/2/10 21:31

Jesus was a Jew.
And had no money.
_______

How do u know?
By most accounts he was recognised as a special talent from birth. If such a speical person cannot make the journey who in those days will be able to make it ? Yet historical data have shown that such movement of people did took place.
It is good to be skeptical but with reasons.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the ISA witchhunt? It used to be that you can't get away if you so much as utter something against racial and religious harmony. But you see Christian churches becoming very powerful in Sg and zealous Christians attempting to overtake secular organisations. And the govt just sits back and watch. How come they don't see these churh power as a threat to their own? Honestly if they open fire at the mega-churches, they might even get richer. Hmmmm....

Anonymous said...

"It is easier for a Taoist to tolerate a Christian than for a Christian to tolerate a Taoist."

Are you for real? Do you know the kinds of things that Taoists do that are difficult to tolerate?

After reading the comments, I find it ironic that those condemning the pastor for ridiculing Buddhism are themselves ridiculing Christianity.

Anonymous said...

do you realized...when comes to "spirit matters", anything goes? what you don't see we seen to have been given a LICENSE to fabricate - apparently.

so all of a sudden, somebody comes along and say, hey, my dead great great grandfather spirit liveth and if you allowed him to dwell in you, you can be a SUPER BEING.

so grace is the most powerful force or substance in the universe. unseen love, forgiveness, tolerance,long suffering are now tools of manipulation or rather,weapons of mass destruction or reconstruction

the masses brains become jello in the hands of their musical director.

and the cash registers unending ringing reverberate through the corridors of powers

and what does our GOVERNMENT do? issue license and more license to these charlatan,quacks,confidence toasters,bunco artist to operate.

hmmmm.....anybody wants to start their own religion or promote "spirit" and make some good money?

Anonymous said...

We should respect every religion in the world but the ONLY FREAKING religion that we shoud disrespect and Blasphemy, split and shit on is the PAP religion. Just look at how those business-man and benefactors of PAP's religions worship and preach about the teaching and nonsense of the PAP ideology so much. Besides, they even has the shame to preach that the old man is messiah of SinCity. No wonder the lightning strike the Merlion's head !

DanielXX said...

Anyone with no tolerance in his heart for other religions is a potential terrorist. Terrorists by nature see the world in black and white, in absolutes and thus are motivated to right any wrongs by hook or by crook.

By the terrorist act, this Rony Tan should be jailed indefinitely. His name alone is a crime. Is it pronounced Rooney, Ronnie or Rowny (as in Sony)??

Anonymous said...

correction, anyone with no tolerance for logic,rationale and EVIDENCE of GOOD WORKS or UNABLE TO SUBSTANTIATE CLAIMS is a potential terrorist.

btw, did we send our children to schools to become "harry potter"?

please!

Anonymous said...

"do you realized...when comes to "spirit matters", anything goes? what you don't see we seen to have been given a LICENSE to fabricate - apparently."

Are you saying that there is no...accountability then?

Are you saying that these charismatic leaders can be irresponsible with what they say or anyhow interpret sacred writings to fit into their agenda?

Are you also saying that our gahmen has given these leaders the license to trick, manipulate,mislead and control the minds of our people for profit or for personal gain?

Is that what happen?

Anonymous said...

our banks are screwed because we cannot hold key personnel ACCOUNTABLE for their independent actions or when there is a lack of checks and balances in the system, people become IRRESPONSIBLE with their actions

banks got screwed, our economy got screwed and your fiaking ability to pay your mortgages got screwed and your wives and daughters become hdb prostitutes or maids to your next door neigbours!

one fine day, the plane you are on may get bombed because we sanctioned the right to be a NEW CREATION warrior if not, when you are skiving in your office behind your computer watching your wives or girlfriends naked pictures and some NEW CREATION(spiritual creative) religious fanatic decided to ROCK the foundation of your building with DYNAMITES and send you to meet your 72 virgins in heaven because, his leader HEARD THE SPIRIT MANDATE FROM HEAVEN WHEN HE IS WASHING HIS PEE A PEE in the bathroom.

hello anon 9:51, now is that what happened?

(am i also not allowed to fabricate in spirit?)

quanxi said...

aiyoh, bomb already say sorry and move on lah.

Anonymous said...

Hmm..should be hold the issuer of license responsible for every deaths,every conflicts, every irresponsible jailing and the abuse of the laws, every hardship to the people caused by religious conflicts then?

Anonymous said...

Looks like the papist leegime has fallen to the fanatical christians.

Anonymous said...

I remember a story in the old book. Someone went up the moutain to bring laws down to the people, and what were the people doing? Prancing around a golden cash cow.

Basically, these are cash cows to some people, that's all. Good works as justification? More goodworks done through NGOs in the world than self serving religious bodies with self serving agenda put together.

Jim said...

Hi Lucky,

The link you provided can be explained from the Christian point of view as well. So the points raised can be debated.

However I do agree with you the view point is important as it determines your vantage point - what you can see directly and what will be blocked from your sight.

Have you heard of the 3L explanation of Jesus - Lord, Lunatic or Liar? That is one of the most logical propositions I have encountered. Jesus is the root of Christianity. Determine who he is according to your viewpoint.

From my limited knowledge, if Jesus were amongst us today, there would be forgiveness not hatred. Unfortunately it seems more harm than good has been done in the name of Jesus. Even Hollywood has replaced "shit" with "jesus"!

$PAP$ said...

notice when it comes to the crunch,
it is the God of No Mercy who prevails over all religious chauvinism....

PAP$$$$$$$$$$ speaks the loudest

Anonymous said...

I think I shall start a new religion called...PROVE

Perceptive Reasoning Over Visionary Exaggeration.

Members and servants are required to substantiate 'opinion' or we get the police to jail you. LOL

Anonymous said...

"From my limited knowledge, if Jesus were amongst us today, there would be forgiveness not hatred. "

If Jesus was here amongst us, He would have the guts to be hanged on the bloody cross instead of kissing the feet of Caesar.

Anonymous said...

I am currently a sleeping member of a "mega-church". After many years of attending church, I am rather disillusioned.

In the church, I learnt that whatever I do is never enough. God is never happy enough. We are asked to sacrifice more and more.


I am sorry that it was your experience.

There is a Church that teaches that God is merciful and that God is happy to have us as we are, and welcomes us back no matter how far we have strayed. I wish you luck in searching for it! :)

Anonymous said...

Mr Lucky

PAP will profit from religious conflict and distrust.
And remember that your daughters have no future under PAP.
Is your love for them less than your hatred for Christianity (be it true or false)?

Anonymous said...

//
Good works as justification? More goodworks done through NGOs in the world than self serving religious bodies with self serving agenda put together.
//

Could you name these selfless NGOs?
Red Cross?

Anonymous said...

the joke is this, true or false it is decided by an adverse reaction to massaging fungi foot. guess how many will stoop so low to get a license to talk big?

ahhhh...you see anyone with the spine to stand up for the truth?

a true leader will die for the truth. but something are not worth dying for such as lies,bullshit and creative story telling!

the fake one will build himself a mega kingdom by promising you the heavens. the conservative preacher in an obscure house prison is no saint either.

they all have one thing in common. they have SINned because they denied the cross!

Anonymous said...

"so all of a sudden, somebody comes along and say, hey, my dead great great grandfather spirit liveth and if you allowed him to dwell in you, you can be a SUPER BEING.

so grace is the most powerful force or substance in the universe. unseen love, forgiveness, tolerance,long suffering are now tools of manipulation or rather,weapons of mass destruction or reconstruction

the masses brains become jello in the hands of their musical director."

Mercy, what's this all about? :)

Anonymous said...

I am currently a sleeping member of a "mega-church". After many years of attending church, I am rather disillusioned.

In the church, I learnt that whatever I do is never enough. God is never happy enough. We are asked to sacrifice more and more.

I am sorry that it was your experience.

There is a Church that teaches that God is merciful and that God is happy to have us as we are, and welcomes us back no matter how far we have strayed. I wish you luck in searching for it! :)


Think the two of you are worshiping different Gods!

Anonymous said...

let see your children be raped by dogs and.. :)...say, because god has mercy on you,forgives you and welcomes you,i will to because god'slove fills my heart for you.

now if you feel that way, please put your name,address down below and tell us who your children, sisters, brothers are who want to experience this...."mercy". hahahahahaha

Anonymous said...

we have educated a bunch of, no, a large bunch of farting idiots!!

that's the failure of our garbagemen!!

Anonymous said...

The world is a better place to live if there's no christian,jew and muslim.

Anonymous said...

moral of the story:

anyone can talk big or talk great things. put a gun to his head, watch his pants.

with so much money, adoration and power at stake, i can confidently say, ALL of them are talking shit!!

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M114bK4qaiM

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg

Anonymous said...

"Could you name these selfless NGOs?
Red Cross?"

if you are thinking of the "good" religion does and therefore it justifies all the crap, you are myopic.

like the pap, their community engagement is pathetic. for every show they put on for the world to see, only a tiny FRACTION of the population engages in community work.

the rest, APATHETIC! why?

HYPOCRISY is STILL the greatest damnation of the resurrected one!

Anonymous said...

the whole philosophy of the worship of god is UNITY - one united body!

fuking hypocrites are disuniting everyone.

FUK YOU for preaching CRAP and SUPPORTING CRAP!

Anonymous said...

yah, but singapore serves the best chilli crap.HAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

yes united, wait armageddon cum first, jesus return in glory and roast(is call mercy of god) everyone for rejecting him and then roast somemore when kena fthrown in hell for eternity.

when millions and billions are all burn in hell forever and forever what's left behind which is his idol worshippers or the hallelujah people then there shall be UNITY lah..understand?

all the blind sheep will have a happy ending in the new earth with jesus and the rest of the bastard goats will be burn in hell forever and ever. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

wonderful doctrine. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Anonymous said...

11/2/10 11:48

The joke is that we do have a sizable number of better educated class supporting such retch in society.

Are they rational people? Imagine these nuts "doing good" in society.

*shudder*

yamizi said...

Lucky,

Does having the hope to see justice done mean that the person is full of hatred?

Then for all the policies and economics situation which you would hope for something better to be done (akin a justice to be done), can I infer that you have a lot of hatred for the policymakers as well?

Anonymous said...

Yamizi, you look like the type who gets raped and beaten still walk around singing hallelujah.

or your family members cheated,robbed, deceived and thrown into rubbish bins and you still remain as calm as the PAP clergy or the pope...smile, sprinkle water of blessing to people who make fools out of you.

hey, i like your type. LOL

Anonymous said...

reminds me of SMILING dragon hidden tiger out to devour you type.

oh mercy me...:)

yamizi said...

For the 2 timid anons,

You don't need to have hatred to see justice done.

Conceiving hatred will only makes matters worse as you will lose your sane and composed mind.

Anonymous said...

hate meh? where got. some call it...PASSION..muahahahahahhahaha

Anonymous said...

Mr Lucky

When you deliver the shattering revelation (based on the surely iirefutable evidence by a Jewish tour guide) in your next installation, could you also suggest the justice that the evil Pastor Tan surely deserves?

Oh, just one thing ... lets just imagine that if Christianity was actually a real religion ... just for one second ... how many of your beloved readers here do you think will be arrested under the same law?

Anonymous said...

you will be the first arrested for threatening citizens. LOL

Anonymous said...

Oh lucky, can't wait for you to.shatter us like our greater mortals strike us with bolts of lightning. ha ha ha ha

Anonymous said...

If Christianity is what she claims to be, billions of people will go to hell - being arrested is heaven in comparison.

Anonymous said...

i presume many of those who arrest "offenders" will probably burn in hell too - especially for demonising the anointed Pastor Rony Tan LOL

Anonymous said...

oh no, lucky better not..."shattered" us then?

HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

Mr Lucky

//
By the terrorist act, this Rony Tan should be jailed indefinitely. - DanielXX
//

Do you agree?

Anonymous said...

Three guys die together in an accident and go to heaven. When they get there, St. Peter says, "We only have one rule here in heaven...don't step on the ducks."

So they enter heaven, and sure enough, there are ducks all over the place. It is almost impossible not to step on a duck, and although they try their best to avoid them, the first guy accidentally steps on one.

Along comes St. Peter with the ugliest woman he ever saw. St. Peter chains them together and says "Your punishment for stepping on a duck is to spend eternity chained to this ugly woman!"

The next day, the second guy steps accidentally on a duck, and along comes St. Peter , who doesn't miss a thing, and with him is another extremely ugly woman. He chains them together with the same admonishment as for the first guy.

The third guy has observed all this and not wanting to be chained for all eternity to an ugly woman, is very, VERY careful where he steps. He manages to go months without stepping on any ducks, but one day St. Peter comes up to him with the most gorgeous woman he has ever laid eyes on...a very tall, tan, curvaceous, sexy blonde. St. Peter chains them together without saying a word. The guy remarks, "I wonder what I did to deserve being chained to you for all of eternity?"
The woman replies, "I don't know about you but I stepped on a duck"

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

Vote Wisely!

Anonymous said...

where are all the pap trolls? hi ho hi ho

Anonymous said...

let's make it 100!

yippeeeee!hi ho hi ho

Anonymous said...

The Url of the Video clips of Pastor Rony Tan blasting and attacking Buddhism as below:


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIrtk5V_t-Q


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKBzyatd880


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfQwBu5ZWE


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4wKGg4mJ1g

Anonymous said...

ok next topic please...

Anonymous said...

Hello Lucky,

Sorry to hear that you have yet to take the leap of faith, I hope someday you will. You see, ypu are still trying to be convinced of the existence of God and therefore like a scientist playing with his testtube. Once proven, then you will believe.That's the process of coming to faith. For those faithful ones, they are beyonf the testing phase and into the believing phase.......again religion is about doing good... christianity is about nobody is good enough , our good works are like rags to GOD. Therefore he offer us the gift of salvation by his works not ours!. Until you realised that there would be faith!

Anonymous said...

christianity is about nobody is good enough , our good works are like rags to GOD. Therefore he offer us the gift of salvation by his works not ours!. Until you realised that there would be faith!

LOL

tell it to PAP - especiallee the old man LOL.

his countless number of supporters are not restricted to just grateful ordinary folks but dignitaries all over the world who admire him and hope to duplicate his "good deeds". now try to convince them his good works are rags compared to all you pew warmers with either hands raised, shaking spasmodically or you lie prostrated, writhing like half dead cockroach on the ground before a man full of spitting saliva LOL

oh please. your leaders are so full of "free stuff" from your dead relative who speak with so much mystery, it will have to take a genuine idiot to build on secrecy and dumb and dumber followers to give it credence LOL

oh i dont blame your dead relative whose carcass has been mercilessly raped for insane profit , i blame bigger idiots who feed the spitting lizard and turn him into GODzilla!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

christianity is about nobody is good enough , our good works are like rags to GOD.

Seditious!!!PAP should sue Christianity! Haaa

Anonymous said...

Anon 08:09,

Someone said this, below paragraph, in his blog which is worth noting. No comments about the rest of his stuff though so not putting up his blog here.

"""Even though we have all grown up hearing theologians tell us that Christ paid the punishment for our sins, there is not a legal system in the world where that would be acceptable. There is a punishment for sin and that punishment must be paid by the person who committed the sin and by no one else. You can’t transfer guilt from a guilty person to an innocent person. If God would have punished and killed Jesus for our sins, God would be breaking His own law because Jesus was innocent of all sin."""

Basically, that demolishes everything that Christianity stands for.

Million dollar question is: How do you make sense of Jesus death?

If anyone of you can make sense some sense of his death( it's so sensible,it draws ALL to salvation), I will be the first to lift my glass to you.

Anonymous said...

yo, u r toking to brain dead ppl. day dreaming about being the next prince charming lah or ... price charging lol

Anonymous said...

Have A Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous Lunar New Year!


Gong Xi Fa Cai!! Peace...

Anonymous said...

The state does nothing for the people. There is no unemployment insurance, no state welfare for the poor, no nothing. Lee's city state only takes your taxes. If you fall into poverty, they can only watch.

With no security against misfortune whatsoever, Singaporeans do not have any children. Their birth rate is the lowest in the world. And now their migration rates to the west are also one of the highest in the world.

Singaporeans are not giving birth and those remaining are fleeing the country.

Go Xi Fa Cai, my ass! Many of us Singaporeans don't have jobs, you know. They're all taken by the supposed FTS.

Anonymous said...

Go Xi Fa Cai, my ass!

LOL

passion for you there LOL

Anonymous said...

He may have apologised, but that doesn't change abit of his view about Buddhism and taoism. He will only be more careful with what he say in the future, but no radical change in what he believe abt Buddhism and taoism. He still believe that except Christianity, all religion is a big lie from the devil. He has too much to lose if he refuse to apologise. Thats about it.

Anonymous said...

dont believe these preachers who promise you prosperity and health and hell. there iz noo basis for such claims lah. all hai gong pulling your legs, your trousers and your underwears untl you pokai in pocket and blains lah.

kick this hippos in their groin kick their nonsense out of country but believe in jesus can...not xxxianity!!!

over out!

Anonymous said...

then what? believe those preacher who promise you poverty and sickness and go heaven faster?!Like that got more basis meh? USE YOUR BLOODY PIG BRAIN mah!!

Believe in jesus who gives u poverty and sickness then go heaven? NO WAY. Singaporean are deft, don't use their brain to think. See above is an example!

Anonymous said...

For all the rest who is not convinced of God's Grace, I have this to say to you....

1)God will still be around but PAP won't!
2) Jesus is God and He is above the law....he operates in the realm of Grace. That doesn't mean you could go and start murdering, committing all the sins and expect to get Grace....theh he doesn't know the meaning of Grace. Just like FREEDOM, you are free to do what you want but if you want to jump down..then gravity cannot stop you.

Anonymous said...

I would like to have Rony Tan's lucky charm. How come talk so much rubbish, attack other religions can get away with only apologies? If he had attacked the Muslims, he might have had his church burnt down. I can understand the govt's decision to let him off, and not let the Christians think that they are "persecuting Christians" but really I've always thought Christian to be the most aggressive in terms of attacks on other religions. I think the govt should call the Archbishop or whatever and mpress upon him how important it is to maintain religious harmony in Sg. You always see the Christians overstepping the line.

Anonymous said...

"I've always thought Christian to be the MOST aggressive in terms of attacks on other religions...You ALWAYS see the Christians overstepping the line."

Hey, watch what you say. Does such accusation in line with what you said about religious harmony? I think u better apologise for your anti-christian stance.

Anonymous said...

I think the Christians should apologise for what they have done.

Anonymous said...

There are 'true' believers, 'real' believers.
And are there phantom, unreal, fake and artificial ones as well ?????

Anonymous said...

Religion is a personal experience. People who choose not to believe will not be condemned. If you are interested, you can always do some bible study than critise or use vulgar language in this blog.

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Marc said...

Some of you are puzzled why Rony Tan was let off lightly. This is why! : "In deep gratitude to our protective and caring government all these 43 years..." (read "more info" on the right) This is call "Insurance". Rony Tan has paid the required "insurance premium" and so now he is "insured". Ming Yi, on the other hand, did not pay his insurance premium. lol

Omarlalg said...

reminds me of SMILING dragon hidden tiger out to devour you type. oh mercy me...:)