Monday, March 29, 2010

"The govt is exploring how it can further tie a person's CPF to the purchase and sale of an HDB flat"

UPDATE: There's actually a YouTube video of PM Lee explaining what the govt is trying to do:


Read the article below on how the govt plans to 'tie a person's CPF to the purchase and sale of flats'. There is plenty of euphemistic language including this 'the government wants to strengthen the CPF route in the buying and selling of flats'. What it is say is simply the govt is looking at plans to require sellers to return all (or most of) money from the sale of HDB flats to CPF including profits in excess of what was withdrawn from CPF. What you can take out of a sale is likely to be the cash (+some interest) you use to service your loan. We will probably see more details soon.

The main reason given for this change is :

"It is a growing trend that has got authorities concerned: Home-owners selling HDB flats to pay off debts, only then to ask their MP for help in getting a rental unit." - PM Lee

First of all, how many people are actually doing this? Why are they doing this? If there are many, isn't the bigger problem indebtness rather than PAP MP's problem of helping people to apply for rental flats?

I'm not sure if you remember this but a year ago, I posted a clip from 93.8Live programme about long queues for rental flats (waiting time 4 years). One person called to say that he had to sell his flat to pay for his debts. After he did that he didn't have much left and was still in bad shape financially so he applied for rental flats but had application rejected "because he had recently sold a flat". There are already all sorts of rules in place to reject applications for rental flat- in this case the person probably needed a rental flat badly but was rejected anyway.

In Singapore, there is no social safety net for those who lose their jobs, fall seriously ill or have an accident. Many are forced by circumstances beyond their control to borrow. Besides the banks, our GLCs have gotten into the act of providing unsecured loans - SingPost (with GE Money called EzyCash)...even NTUC have gotten into this business with something known as Smart Credit. A few days ago while I was at a SingPost branch, I saw 3 applicants at the EzyCash counter - one of them brought his wife and child along. When the loan officer asked him why he needed to borrow, he said his mother has been hospitalised and he needed the money urgently. We know the demand for these unsecured loans is very high - credit card rollover debt is about $4B ($3.3B in end 2008[Link], $3.6B in end 2009). The unsecured non-credit card debt is probably higher because the interest on those are about 17% compared with 24% on credit cards so people start to rollover their credit card debt only when they max out their unsecured loans. Banks promote these loans aggressively - you see the ads at MRT stations, telemarkets call frequently and they advertise frequently on the newspapers.

When the unsecured debt mounts, the borrower pays a hefty interest which is great for bank profits but strains the individual financially. When this happens, the most prudent thing a person in debt should and can do is sell his HDB flats to clear the debts so that he can start over again, hopefully without meeting any personal misfortune that forces him to borrow. Without the ability to raise some cash with his HDB flat, he will be enslaved by the loan and that will be highly detrimental for him in the long run.

"When you're not so old, and you've bought the house, and now you see that the pot of gold is down there and you ignore the 'please don't break the glass sign' and you break the glass and take the money out straightaway, then what happens to you? Or more importantly, your children and your dependents? Where do they go?" - PM Lee

People in debt will eventually lose their homes if they get sick or lose their jobs. Prevent people from settling their debts will result in them carrying a heavy debt burden compounded by ridiculous interest rates over a long period of time. It just doesn't make sense that PM Lee sees the solution to people selling their flats to pay their debt is to lock up the money in the CPF so they can't touch it when they actually need it to give themselves better odds going ahead. Why do the solutions to so many problems involve locking up more money in the CPF for longer and longer periods?......

---------------
Govt to explore ways to increase use of CPF for buying HDB flats
By Hoe Yeen Nie Posted: 27 March 2010 2131 hrs


Govt to explore ways to increase use of CPF for buying HDB flats

SINGAPORE: The government is exploring how it can further tie a person's CPF to the purchase and sale of an HDB flat. The aim is to strengthen the message that property is an asset for one's old age. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said this at a forum organised by REACH, the government's feedback unit. It is a growing trend that has got authorities concerned: Home-owners selling HDB flats to pay off debts, only then to ask their MP for help in getting a rental unit. Prime Minister Lee said this goes against the aim of these homes as assets for life. "When we help people to own a home, it's really for you for life," Mr Lee said. "When you're not so old, and you've bought the house, and now you see that the pot of gold is down there and you ignore the 'please don't break the glass sign' and you break the glass and take the money out straightaway, then what happens to you? Or more importantly, your children and your dependents? Where do they go?".

Hence, the government wants to strengthen the CPF route in the buying and selling of flats. "Like what we've been doing with the Additional Housing Grant - that grant we give you into your CPF, you can use it to buy a house," explained the Prime Minister. "If you sell the house, the money goes back into the CPF. So if you're buying another house, you can use that for another house. If you're not buying another house, the money is there for your old age." On tackling income inequality, the Prime Minister said the point was not to measure the size of the gap, but to look at how the poor can be made better off. Access to a good education and a high rate of home ownership are two of the best things the government has done. However, Mr Lee noted there are some people who will be left behind. "And my advice is, please try to help yourself. And particularly, please help your children to break out of this cycle," he said. "The government will help them, but you must help them too." Said Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports: "It's not just about dollars. It's how you deliver the dollars, how you deliver assistance so that people make the right decisions for themselves and their children. "If you were a poor person, anywhere on this planet, Singapore is the one place where you will have a roof over your head, where you will have food on the table. Even if you can't afford it, we will have meals delivered to you. You will get healthcare. "Do not lose sight of the fundamentals. And I am confident that we have done our duty for the people who need our help." The hour-long dialogue also saw questions on the teaching of the Chinese language, and more help for singles. In response to a question on casino entry fees, Mr Lee said the aim was not to prevent Singaporeans and permanent residents from gambling. He added that gambling was not harmful if seen as a form of entertainment, but it does become a concern when people get addicted. The dialogue session is part of a forum on securing Singapore's future. - CNA/yb

55 comments:

kilroy said...

The much vaunted reverse mortgage scheme was supposed to solve this malady of Singaporeans being cash poor but asset rich ( the latter unrealistically so due to the flawed implementation of the FT policy which caused an upward demand greater than supply spiral in resale HDB prices which in turn affected new HDB prices because they are linked to the former )but there is already an o/s court case involving an NTUC Income reverse mortgage where it was demonstrated clearly that the insurance company having committed to the projected stream of cash payments will come after the mortgagee if the valuation of the property declines - as it should when the leasehold runs out -

Anonymous said...

Ultimately, the live of all Singaporeans will be tied and be bonded to slavery.

Me says take advantage of the high price, not neccessarily profitable,
sell of the property, cash out and get out of SIN, if ones' future matters. However, having said that, think many Singaporeans are still waiting to make a kill and prosper further. Different folks different strokes, make your choices.

Anonymous said...

If we look around us, you cannot deny that Singapore is indeed a very very wealthy country, asset wise. One unit of HDB flat is worth and average of 350,000 and there are literally hundreds of thousands of them around. At any traffic light, if we can monetize the value of the cars waiting for the light to turn green is mind boggling. It is a land where the streets are paved with gold.

Our PM talks himself into a corner. The reverse mortgage sheme mentioned has its faults. If he expounds his theory that the HDB is an asset for retirement, he should stick to this theory and allow the monetization of such.

No singular policy will be able to capture the dynamics of a market place. PAP has see it fit to continually shifting their policies to come out with the ultimate policy with their agendas in mind. In so doing, it is causing great distress amongst us.

"As it is said, so shall it be done". May God help us all.

Anonymous said...

You guys write a lot but think like fucks

Anonymous said...

They are just desperate to plug big holes in sovereign funds. Who knows whether they are solvent or not?

Worse still, who knows whether even our CPF is solvent or not? I think it is structured similar to banks fractional lending system --- if enough people are to demand cashing out their entire CPF accounts (e.g. large numbers of people renouncing SG citizenship & migrating), govt will not be able to payout their money as most of CPF monies may be tied-up in long-term govt bonds. Govt will not have liquidity to redeem so much bonds.

Regarding this rental flat and/or low-cost flat issue, seems like govt is simply extending a "helpful" left hand for publicity purpose, while the right hand is tightly clenched, kept behind the back, controlling the supply of rental flats and low-cost flats.
Many available rental flats are being kept empty, even new ones. Near where I stay, there are 2 entire blocks of rental flats completely empty --- just completed building 4 months ago.
Furthermore, low-cost 2-rm flats are not being released for selection. For example, the latest BTO in Sengkang --- there are 2-rm flats being built, but HDB only offering 3-rm, 4-rm and 5-rm for selection.

Does govt need a public display of mass suicides or mass riots by desperate people before it will do the right thing?

Anonymous said...

Personally I have came across many cases of people squandering away their money after selling their flats. Profits were wasted through gambling/Batam mistresses/cars etc, taking on of new debts and spending of cash. A fine line needs to be taken on the government's part but it also does not mean locking up our CPF funds till the day you die, leaving money squabbling to your children.

lim said...

First, they disallowed profit withdrawal gained by cpf investments..

Second, they increase age whereby you start your draw-down..

3rd, they lock up your min sum in cpf life..

Now, they want to tie-up your hdb profit in cpf..

Next, they will give every child a cpf a/c, and when the parents die, cpf will go to children's cpf a/c, no cash payout..

After that, when you give up citizenship, your cpf will be forfeited..

HELLO, Still WANT TO VOTE FOR PAP???

Anonymous said...

Vote wisely, vote for wealth.

Anonymous said...

I have a very interesting idea that could solve all the problems.

Competition works. For example, if one store tried having high prices,
nobody would shop there because there are better choices.
So all stores improve themselves to remain competitive.

Society is basically a monopoly, which is why its not
improving much.

Imagine we divide the land into economic regions
that compete with each other.

People can choose which region to live and work in.

If one region doesn't pay enough, nobody chooses it,
so it goes out of business and the land is given
to one of the better regions.

Now lets say one region gives everybody a higher pay rate.

Your region would have to give you a higher pay rate too,
so it could stay in business.

This is competition and it works.

Right now, countries compete with each other to
produce stuff as cheaply as possible,
which means you either lose your job to someplace
that works cheaper,
or you don't get paid as much as you deserve.

This is a race to the bottom.
Everybody loses.

Regions would start a race to the top,
and you win.

Regions have to give you better pay and benefits
and everything else, to compete and stay in business.
They are competing against each other to serve you better.

The benefits go way beyond money.
Everything in the region would get better,
because it has to, so they can stay in business.

You would have a higher quality of life,
more freedom, and more fun.

Regions are for the people,
since it is the people who decide which regions
stay in business and which regions don't.

In practice, people will not need to move,
since all regions will get better.

Just the possibility of going out of business
is all they need to stay good and improve.

There are a lot of details that are needed
to make this work, but it is all worked out.


Each region is run by a different organization,
so they have to compete with each other to
give everybody a better life.

It is a concept similar to retail stores.

If one store doesn't give good sales prices,
or a good variety of products,
then nobody shops there because there are better choices.

Competition doesn't work with the type of cities and
towns we have now,
partly because there is very little local control.

Most rules are national or international.

Also, if people move out,
the land stays with the same system and
its faulty economy; nothing changes.

There is no real competition, no new systems.

Its the same race to the bottom, and it isn't going
to get much better unless we adopt this
new system of competition.


Companies face a conflict between doing
whats best for profit, or whats best for the people.
Guess which one wins.

This is why companies lay off people and leave
them unemployed for a long time. Its profitable.

This is why you don't get as much money as you
would like in your paycheck. Its profitable.

Regions have no conflict,
they are for the people because people vote with
their feet and decide which regions stay in business or not.

So all regions get better and better,
they race to the top, to serve you the best pay rates,
the best quality of life.

Regions fall all over each other to do the best job for you.

This means that you get more fun and more money
if we switch over to regions.

That was from the chapter on regions.
Read the whole book free online here:

http://thealliance.jimdo.com/

mirror:
http://alliance34.blog.ca/

Please come back here to discuss it on this forum, because I
have been having some problems with email due to my shared IP address.

I have solutions to all the problems, but need your help to
make it popular.

Lets at least talk about it.
Thank you.

LuckySingaporean said...

Anon 10:13,

Make no mistake the PM was talking about using HDB profits to settle debts not about people squandering their profits on Chinese mistresses who specialises on preying on Singapore men with CPF.

Today the bulk of the sale proceeds already goes back towards the CPF anyway to replenish the money drawn from the OA account.

lim said...

Talking about competition, I too have an idea, but it is about how to deal with the oil-cartel type of show run by the petrol companies here..

Well, let's say we can galvanise motorists to patronise only from one petrol company, regardless of price.. I think when this happened, the other companies will have to drop their prices to "compete", and this will likely happen within a few weeks.. Once we achieve this, then we can patronise another company (all will go to the same company again), and force the others to match again.. This is basically giving the petrol companies a taste of their own medicine, since they seems to act in unison, so we should do the same.. Only problem is how to reach a large number of motorists...

Anonymous said...

locking up profits in HDB flat sales? Nice move! I'm loving it!

peasants who voted for the PAP, a large majority being HDB flat owners, get what they deserve hehehe.

Anonymous said...

Consistency man......consistency. Too many changes at whims and fancies without having due regards about the implications they would have on the `innocent' majority would confuse and frustrate everyone - citizens, PRs, FTs and investors.

Anonymous said...

Next, they will tie your wings from leaving to greener pasture with your cpf.

Amused said...

Are they going to revamp the bankruptcy code to help people in desparate situations?

Anonymous said...

< Now, they want to tie-up your hdb profit in cpf..>

don't sell lor hehe

Anonymous said...

to Lucky- maybe you can give a discussion on this

The situation is getting worried as time pass -by. Many HDBs in areas like Bedok, Ang Mo Kio and Jurong are aging and coming to 30 years. These are big estates and land location is not as good as central and Queenstown. They are being built up tightly unlike areas in old town.

So as these areas hit 40 years old and there are more than 200K household, how to do a reverse mortgage.

May be PAP have to do one-time extension of free top-up to 99 years again. ha ha

I remember in 2000, I was trying to sell my 13 years old flat in Yishun and see that age of the flat got an effect. But I was wrong.

Singaporean buying HDB like it is a free Hold.

So time will come and we will see how Mr Mah clean up these mess.

lim said...

@anon 29/3/10 11:14

>>don't sell lor hehe

Say, somebody loses his job, ends up getting a new job that pays less (due to foreigners influx) cannot meet mortgage payment, so goes see mp, mp says why don't sell hdb, and downgrade..

So can this person don't sell? hehe...

Anonymous said...

Singapore is a mistake with this kind of stupid policies.

LuckySingaporean said...

anon 11:36,

There are 2 things the govt has done with regard to that issue. The 1st was SERS (Selective En-bloc redevelopment). The 2nd was to allow properties that are more than 30 years old to be bought with bank loans & CPF - people don't seem to mind old property just look at what people are paying for Marine Parade flats which are more than 30 years old.

There were a few cases of HUDC being privatised and the residents were allowed to top up the lease to 99 years. I'm not too familiar with how they price that.

This problem has occurred in HK and the govt there allowed lease-top ups (at discount to market?). But the problem is the age of the buildings - a 50 yr old project can look really bad and en-bloc redevelopment is probably a better approach.

Legally the govt can take back property after 100 years. However, this is politically a really bad idea. They have to get creative and continuously launch programmes to deal with this issue to renew old estates and gracefully deal with this.

Anonymous said...

As usual the papist leegime is ever quick in legislating away their works and problems onto the shoulders of Singaporeans.
No wonder Singaporeans r having such rough times while the papists and their cronies enjoy their luxurious lives.
Singaporeans should ask why vote for a government who keep on shirking its' responsibilites.

Anonymous said...

Say, somebody loses his job, ends up getting a new job that pays less (due to foreigners influx) cannot meet mortgage payment, so goes see mp, mp says why don't sell hdb, and downgrade..

So can this person don't sell? hehe...

29/3/10 11:38

aiyo, use yor blain use yor blain. he downgrade mortgage lower can survive lor but he cannot sell go womanize with poofit hehe

Anonymous said...

If an individual decides to sell his flat for a profit, and keep the cash, it should be his right.

In this case, the government should simply stay out and not meddle too much.

Let people take responsibility for their own cash and what not. It's so elementary..

Anonymous said...

in that case, it should go both ways. the government would say to you, it is their right to deny you your "welfare" or assistance when you get into financial troubles.

for if you spent it frivolously or hv been foolish with managing your finances,you shan't hv the right to come knocking at the mps door for help

lim said...

@anon 29/3/10 12:18

>>aiyo, use yor blain use yor blain. he downgrade mortgage lower can survive lor but he cannot sell go womanize with poofit hehe

Sure mortgage may be lower, but how you know that he can survive with lower pay? You aware that fees, etc are going up up and away... hehe

Anonymous said...

Sure mortgage may be lower, but how you know that he can survive with lower pay? You aware that fees, etc are going up up and away... hehe

29/3/10 14:10

use yor blain use yor blain. do you know many "poor" can survive or not?why why?

because they neber ...womanize! hohoho

Anonymous said...

Anon,

You are right for HUDC , it can be privatised.
As for Marine Parade, the land there is good, so no problems.
How about areas in Marsline, land no good, cannot be SERS near airbase or high restriction!

To do SERS, it must have profit for HDB.

To do it on a mass scale such as Bedok or Jurong east or Ang Mo Kio is not easy.

200K households and how to get people to buy a flat that is left 60 years left.

We have sank too much money from our CPF into house! worst is a 99 years.

I am skeptical it will ever work.
That's why we new FT to fill up the demand and buy out our aging HDB! HA HA the final Check need to cross. Need to have new "Hai Gong".

lim said...

@anon 29/3/10 14:31

>> because they neber ...womanize! hohoho

sigh... How many people do you know sell their hdb flat for profit, and use the profit for womanizing?

Ghost said...

Lucky, you are totally correct. There’s no reason why a 60+, 70+ elderly person CANNOT sell his flat. A flat may be an asset for life but at that age life is almost over and the elderly person would be more worried about his daily expenses.

Anonymous said...

>> because they neber ...womanize! hohoho

sigh... How many people do you know sell their hdb flat for profit, and use the profit for womanizing?

29/3/10 14:41

aiya, read betwen the lines. i no no how write many many words i very simple one like jesus...few lines oonly can do. lol

Anonymous said...

locking money sold from flat into cpf is not to our interest, it is best interest to goverment. lame excuse to lock more cpf.

who want to sell of their home if there is choice. they are just further increase the burden of not letting those seller to pay off their debts fully.

"It's not just about dollars. It's how you deliver the dollars"
"Even if you can't afford it, we will have meals delivered to you. You will get healthcare"

Those statements are crap. In singapore, if you have no money, you will be ignore and rot till death. No money, no healthcare.

If you no money, they will say you have to help yourself when they are one of the culprit who exploit the policy and too your money.

Anonymous said...

the general philosophy of the gov is hard to fault but yet, there is something amiss.

sad but you guys still have not nailed it

Anonymous said...

if Im not wrong, during the Budget debate 2010, they announce that there will be changes in Jan 2011 on how balances of a decease can will it to children with special needs. Vaguely, they also mention that balances can be passed to the CPF accounts of their children, although I read it to be voluntary, but shudders to think that it can be passed into law.

Right now, CPFs money are paid up in full when we renounce citizenship. At the rate they are working, they might rescind this policy, and pay those who seek greener pastures much the same way as a citizen, under their annuity scheme. There is nothing we can do

Anonymous said...

The more they try to lock away our CPF monies, the more I think it is likely CPF (or GIC or Temasek) has suffered tremedous financial loss, and is in great need of our CPF monies to keep themselves solvent.

Anonymous said...

watch out, people! the next CPF rule could be that for those people with nett asset value of above $1,000,000, they are qualified to withdraw any amount of CPF after retirement. the reason being that these people are obviously rich and can "take care" of themselves.

that will cover all judges, ministers, secretaries of ministry, french-cooking civil servants etc.

that is the cue that CPF is dead and peasants are screwed.

Anonymous said...

This will be a sad news for most singaporean. Another potential revenue for the garment piggy bank?

This garment is getting worst and worst. If they will to implement it, there will be more sucide and anger. That's will ensure their own downfall.

Do I see a potential tsunami with the prefect storm coming to singapore soon?

Conscious said...

Let us take a step back and be a little more courageous that we used to be and see what's the value we can get out of this island.

Today we have many foreigners in this country who are searching a better life. They are all from third world country. The catchment areas are mainly the poorer parts of China and India. We, however, have been here since we were born. We can clearly see that for the foreigners it is an improvement in their lives albeit we are still at status quo.

Think carefully about sinking your roots here, now and in the future. There is a limit to the quality of life that a family can achieve in this island.

Singapore is too small and is overpopulated. You can't drive a car and own for a lifetime as it is extremely expensive in relation to other countries. Many less off people own their second-hand cars overseas. But the average Singaporeans will find this a burden to his disposable income as cars have been exceptionally overpriced through COEs.

The same for housing. The government has blindly opened the HDB flats market and left it unregulated. Houses are today overpriced and very small. It is uncomfortable to have 2, let alone 3, children in a 3-room HDB flat.

Education fees are rising yearly. You would struggle to keep a family afloat in this country. The average Singaporean father thinks of money when he wakes up each morning. In other developed countries, they view education as a right and not a priveledge. Schools and in particular, universities' tuition fees are fully paid by the government. This is not the case in Singapore and the government has already mentioned more hikes in universities fees. You will have it hard for your family by the time your kid grows up and enter university. A sad Singaporean phenomenon is that your child will be in debt before he starts working.

Conscious said...

There are many countries in the world where basic human rights are respected, where politicians do not condescend the voters, much less call them daft. It is the time to stop being daft.

Life is tough everywhere but life is exceptionally tough in Singapore, insofar as the basic necessities are concerned in this country.

An average person in Tokyo can own a car and raise a family in a house with a parking space. In Singapore, this can never be true forever. As the government discourages the family to own a car, they themselves, engaged chauffeurs. Capitalism and meritocracy are championed for the lack of their moral consistencies, even when meritocracy as a life policy is fallacious.

When you do get out of this country? Seriously, what do you get? You don't own anything you buy here. Your flat is rented to you for 99 years. Then you return it to its rightful owner, the PAP. You don't own the house nor the land. So you can't pass on anything to your future generations really.

You clearly don't own your car. What do you own really? A guy anywhere else in the world could travel and work in any other country and returns 8 years later and still drive their car, which is tucked away in their parent's garage. But you can't. And that person may have less money than you but because they're in a country where land is aplenty and cars are cheap, can unquestionably enjoy a higher quality of life. We are poor and don't even enjoy such a basic quality of life. Think and rethink again and again. What do you get out of this country? For yourself and your future generation. You are struggling to your grave. And you don't own a thing here. An average person in a developed country can own the basic things you need in life for a family. That is a HOUSE and a car. You have to struggle for this basic needs. This does not improve your quality of life and we're talking for eternity. Life on a land scarce city is not going to get any pleasant. There was a time when LKY disagree that the current government desire to increase population size to 6 million. He thought it would be too populated. Today, he tells us our "spurs are not in our hides". Why the sudden change of tack?

Conscious said...

You have now lived and seen the many limitations in this country for yourself and your family. So don't waste much more time. Plan for a life that offers you basic social net and a government that recognises that basic human rights such as health, shelter, accomodation and education are respected. If our government can't afford that through its years of political bullying, we owe to ourselves to think about our future. And the future is no longer in Singapore. There was a time when people said that Singapore won't make it. But we did. Now, the tune is reversed as we have reach resource optimization and the law of diminishing returns to scale is taking effect in this 647 km2 island.

Find another government out of this island that best resonates with what sort of life you wish for your children and yourself and stop buying into the elusive Singapore Dream. It's a lie and you know it.

Make the difference. Do not wait and see for yourself and your family that today's Singapore no longer have the typical complaining Singaporeans. Today's complaining Singaporeans are now no longer complaining, they're taking action. They're either leaving to build beter lifes just like the FTs are coming over to build a life here in Singapore. And clearly, those who are remaining behind have moved on to becoming active anti-PAP citizens.

Anonymous said...

so conscious, which country are you heading to and, dont mind us asking, how rich, total nett worth, are you?

Conscious said...

I don't own a flat nor a car. My net worth is not that much. Most of our net worth are in our CPF and the government has locked it.

I'm heading to Australia. You would at least get an equal opportunity policy there for work. I am in my early 30s.

You don't need to be rich. You need to be motivated to make and seek a better life. And take things in your stride as they come.

Best regard.

Anonymous said...

Agree with Anonymous, at 29/3/10 14:07.

Many Singaporeans want their cake and eat it too - want freedom to handle their CPF money, but expect the government to rescue them (with other taxpayers' money) when they have squandered their money.

Take that old man who is now blaming the government for allowing CPF to be used for investments.

He lost $350,000 and blames the government for his own doing.

It is people like these who spoil the chances for the rest of us who are responsible, from touching our CPF. They give the government an excuse to hold back our money.

I challenge any opposition to relax the rules for CPF if they are in power. I bet they won't because they have to protect their own backsides against irreponsible Singaporeans. That is why you hear them harping about housing prices, but hardly a sound about CPF life and how our money is being forcefully withheld from us.

They know what they are in for.

LKYcalledmeDAFT said...

"Prevent people from settling their debts will result in them carrying a heavy debt burden compounded by ridiculous interest rates over a long period of time. It just doesn't make sense that PM Lee sees the solution to people selling their flats to pay their debt is to lock up the money in the CPF so they can't touch it when they actually need it to give themselves better odds going ahead. Why do the solutions to so many problems involve locking up more money in the CPF for longer and longer periods?......"

The PM is telling us what to do when he should be first advising his wife about the 30 billion dollars that Temasek Holdings lost. He should be spending them to generate more stories in the media so as to build enough new memories in Singaporeans minds such that they would forget the HDB saga and how Mah Bow Tan has screwed up.

Basically, PM Lee is leveraging on his daddy's way fo doing things. He is using his paternal authoritarian ways to tell you something. They often like to ADMONISH you on "live" TV, often a slap to your face that you should follow through with how they think you, get this, not how you should spend your CPF, but how you MUST spend it.

The suicide rates are going to go up, believe you me. People who suffers a personal misfortune such as cancer, accidents, a terminally elder mother, will resort to this.

In Japan, 30 000 Japanese commit suicides each year because of financial difficulties. It is sad to know that our Singaporeans are going to take this direction when the shit hits the fan.

For a small country, we have a high number of suicide rate, something which the government is not addressing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

More Singaporeans die from suicide and accidents in this island than from diabetes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Singapore

SomeonecalledmeDAFT said...

"Prevent people from settling their debts will result in them carrying a heavy debt burden compounded by ridiculous interest rates over a long period of time. It just doesn't make sense that PM Lee sees the solution to people selling their flats to pay their debt is to lock up the money in the CPF so they can't touch it when they actually need it to give themselves better odds going ahead. Why do the solutions to so many problems involve locking up more money in the CPF for longer and longer periods?......"

The PM is telling us what to do when he should be first advising his wife about the 30 billion dollars that Temasek Holdings lost. He should be spending them to generate more stories in the media so as to build enough new memories in Singaporeans minds such that they would forget the HDB saga and how Mah Bow Tan has screwed up.

Basically, PM Lee is leveraging on his daddy's way fo doing things. He is using his paternal authoritarian ways to tell you something. They often like to ADMONISH you on "live" TV, often a slap to your face that you should follow through with how they think you, get this, not how you should spend your CPF, but how you MUST spend it.

The suicide rates are going to go up, believe you me. People who suffers a personal misfortune such as cancer, accidents, a terminally elder mother, will resort to this.

In Japan, 30 000 Japanese commit suicides each year because of financial difficulties. It is sad to know that our Singaporeans are going to take this direction when the shit hits the fan.

For a small country, we have a high number of suicide rate, something which the government is not addressing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

More Singaporeans die from suicide and accidents in this island than from diabetes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Singapore

Anonymous said...

Do you think people like Chee will do it any differently?

"Dr Chee ended the forum by reminding the audience that the “SDP’s plan was not a populist one where everything is provided for free by the state and that citizens had to shoulder their share of financial responsibility in order that the system is not unduly burdened by debt.”"

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/03/29/news-blackout-on-sdps-economic-forum-but-full-page-report-on-chee-chiam-spat-17-years-ago/

I am not a PAP fan, but before we make noise, we need to think about our own actions, if they contribute to the problems.

Otherwise, we will appear to be unreasonably whining, and no wonder, it gives them more reason to dismiss our concerns.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, not any other way but the CPF way to help Singaporeans!

Gahmen very smart, really smart.

They really deserve to win the elections and their million dollar pay.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, not any other way but the CPF way to help Singaporeans!

Gahmen very smart, really smart.

They really deserve to win the elections and their million dollar pay.

Anonymous said...

to anon 00:09, what is your point?

i don't see anything wrong with dr chee's position - we certainly do not want to provide everything for free for everybody.

there should be a sensible middle ground. pap has veered darned far off to the capitalist survival-of-the-fittest side.

before you start attacking dr chee over pap's failed policies, we need to think about how our past blind trust had contributed to pap's arrogance to the people and indifference to the poor.

otherwise, we may appear to be STUPID in the eyes of the future generations and historians.

lim said...

You know, people who were retrenched and landed in financial difficulties had been clamoring for the choice of using their cpf $ to tide them over..

But their voices had fallen on deaf ears..

It is pretty ridiculous to insist on locking-up a person's cpf $ for "old age" when the person is in dire-straits TODAY..

Sure, we can always have some kind of regulations to prevent abuse, such as putting a cap on this tiding-over period, say 12 months, and a limit to amount that can be withdrawn, to allow the person to get a job, etc..

After all this is still the people's $...

Anonymous said...

look at what you are saying lim.
the monies become the people when you want it but when the garmen who is responsible for creating the wealth, you slam it.
isn't that hypocritical of you?

lim said...

@anon 30/3/10 12:20

Eh, don't get what you trying to say..

You mean I served NS, then work, get my salary, contribute cpf, pay income tax, gst, whatever, and you mean the cpf wealth is created by govt, and not mine?

lim said...

@anon 30/3/10 12:20

Something more to add.. This govt is being paid exorbitant rate to "create wealth", not sure whether it is for singaporean or for themselves... So, if they failed, I think all singaporeans have the right to slam them..

Also, talking about our huge reserves, note that our reserves are built over many many years, under older generation of leaders. So let's see, did our reserves "grow" during the past 5-10 years? Judging from all those TH/GIC loses, we probably lost a lot, so not sure what "create wealth" that you are talking about... and since they have lost, isn't it our right to slam them?

Our reserves grow, we get pittance, while they rewarded themselves handsomely, our reserves depleted, we singaporeans are made to fill the hole, with increases in literally everything....

Anonymous said...

If this ends up as people having to pump all (or most of) their profits from HDB flat sales into CPF, i think that can further increase the flat prices. As flat prices increased the moment we could tap into CPF to pay for them many years ago, now we will not be able to touch the money in our CPF and may end up bidding even higher for flats, under the illusion of more 'wealth' in our CPF.

Anonymous said...

The oppositions should define their intentions properly and in details for the electorate to have better informed choices so that the wrong party which doesnt offer as much benefits for the people are not voted in. Keep the checklist of comparision between the present policies and their proposals as simple as possible for the common folks to understand and to decide.

Anonymous said...

This is a serious u-turn by the government...

The repressions for people like myself that have mainly used cash to pay for our flats (save the initial downpayment), instead of the CPF, will be severe.

I would be better off utilising the CPF funds and my excess cash to purchase a private property.

Instead, for being careful, and not touching my CPF, on the understanding that any profits from the sale will be mine to use as I please, given that I have already taken care of retirement by leaving my full CPF untouched, I am now faulted and penalised.

Absurd!! Utterly absurd!!