Wednesday, June 02, 2010

Give..give..give..

Sometimes I get comments in my blog that seem to suggest that I'm against organised religion or that I'm arrogantly atheist in my thinking. Nothing is further from the truth. I've explained a number of times in my blog that I believe religion is important and that it plays a critical role in our society. I also believe beyond the rigorous scientific truth , many people need faith, hope and comfort that can only be provided by religion.

What I'm strongly against are charlatans who take advantage of others....

and the question now is what did Kong Hee and CHC do with the money they collected - from housewives, NS men and students.

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

This case has not even been properly investigated and many armchair critics are already giving judgement. Perhaps we should be thankful that it is not the online critics here who are the investigators.

I suspect that the root of all these criticisms can be found in their jealousy that these churches are able to raise so much money from their flock. money which the critics themselves are unwwilling to give to any welfare organisations,religious or otherwise.

Dear Lucky, I will challenge you on this: You mentioned that these pastors are 'charlatans'. Prove it.

Anonymous said...

"charlatans" means quack, one making usually showy pretenses to knowledge or ability; fraud, faker.

The facts are all there... What is there to proof...

U r just like asking people to proof there is a "sun"

Anonymous said...

I would say that to collect hundreds of millions $$, the bulk of it must have come from the rich.

Of course some of it may come from NSmen, housewives, students but again why do they want to donate?

I didn't donate to any causes when I was a student, NSmen and even till now when I am still employed and in my 40s.

Because I don't believe in donating, especially small amounts. I think the gahmen and the rich should do that for charitable and worthwhile causes to have any impact.

Anonymous said...

If raise GST is to help the poor, show everyone how did it really help. Anon 11:19, if the donations were used for good causes, let it be shown. Than you find the answers.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:28

You have defined 'charlatan' but you have not proved that these pastors are charlatans. As for facts - this case is still under investigation.

Anonymous said...

Sickens me

Anonymous said...

Money talks, bodeh walks.

Money money money ... all is sunny ... in the rich man's world!

Anonymous said...

Almost 90% of religious institution are swindle and worse, some are plain murderer. Eg many of those Islamic jihad groups...etc

Even Vatican is not an exception. Vatican bank is one of the most corrupt institution in the world.

City harvest is just new kid on block.

The elites of Vatican have been suspected in murdering the righteous John Pope 1 so that business as usual.

The problem of CHC is not corruption. Its because she is not powerful enough. If she as powerful as vatican, PAP would lick her ass and use City Harvest Bank to launder money.

Anonymous said...

they have framed the issue on the HOW instead of on the WHAT.it is not HOW do we tighten rules so these charlatans can continue to fleece their flocks but WHAT these charlatans have been perpetuating that is the real issue here.

this particular faith in the last century has transformed an unpopular message of bearing one's cross to one that even madoff will be proud of - promises of HIGH YIELD if you invest your money in real estate from a planet in another universe - that basically sum up their doctrines!!!

and what is wrong with this WHAT you asked? well, it is about INTEGRITY of words. do we need people of NO INTEGRITY to appear to do good in our society when we can raise people OF INTEGRITY to do similarly and BEYOND with the money collected?

do we need people of NO INTEGRITY who make IRRESPONSIBLE PROMISES to our kids and elderlies and instill HOPES WHICH ARE RESTED ON FALSE PROMISES OR UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS when we can OPEN THEIR EYES TO REALITY AND DEAL WITH ALL THEIR PROBLEMS REALISTICALLY?

do we want to create a world of FANTASY so our people can ESCAPE or await to EJECT FROM THIS WORLD AND TO ABANDON ALL OUR PROBLEMS TO THOSE WHOM THEY DISAGREE WITH?

the WHAT goes on and on and what kind of world will this become huh?

i will tell you. unending conflicts and even bloodshed on one extreme end and apathy and arrogance on the other extreme end.

all for what?

because they did charitable works? pls!!!

we can DO MUCH MORE WITH THAT KIND OF MONEY THEY HAVE BEEN GETTING and still get the WHAT RIGHT so our people feet remains GROUNDED ON PLANET EARTH!!!

as of now, they have enriched themselves and wasted much of the people's resources on UNNECESSARY MULTI MILLION DOLLARS BUILDINGS TO FEED THEIR EGOS ALL OVER THE WORLD

if you stop and think about it, goodness, this faith in its entirety has more money wasted than all our reserves many times over!!!

you should be asking why the authorities refuse to get into the CONTENT of what these charlatans are saying and perhaps then, we may have some kind of breakthrough.

fiddling with the HOW will not resolve the wolves and sheep clothing syndrome.

don't just look at the clothing of good works or charities. look at WHO ARE doing these "good works"

like the old man says to china, what these wolves can do, you can do better if you rid the presence of these wolves!!! lol

Anonymous said...

oh come on, give him a big clap.

Anonymous said...

I am a Singaporean who lives overseas for some time (thank God), but when I heard this guy speaking (for the first time), I was like: What the fuck? Can't you detect his tone is so faked?

Should ask him trying to convince the christian mass in the united states, and they will also go: what the fuck? Is that how you haleluja?

Hun Boon said...

Are those figures the actual amounts or in "thousands"?

Yagn Yang said...

I think in this case, the pastor is guilty with all the edvidence unless proven innocent which is rather hard in this case.

Anonymous said...

check this out

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?p=46172970&posted=1#post46172970

Anonymous said...

Anon 13.32

Pls note 33k dont make the whole population in Singapore. Are you implying that all the pastors in the US are not fakes and that Americans are so smart? Go on and continue licking those white arses!

Anonymous said...

To Anon 2/6/10 14:40

"Pls note 33k dont make the whole population in Singapore. Are you implying that all the pastors in the US are not fakes and that Americans are so smart? Go on and continue licking those white arses!"

Now, now. If one professes to be a true Christian, one does not retaliate by saying obscenities, just because one is upset. You Sir, do not show a good example and may in fact turn more people away from your God.

I, for one stopped going to church, when my Pastor came back from South Africa with his family. Using church's funds to convert Africans plus the need to bring wife and 2 kids is a bit too much. He also told us how he and his family enjoyed the safari when they were there, lol. That really opened my eyes to the perks these leaders enjoyed at our expense.

Anonymous said...

Why would a pastor be in Armani suits and have a wife who dresses like a slut? Shouldn't a messanger of God be more humble? A resonable level of income is understandable but not this kind of extravagance, both as a pastor and in the running of the church.

Anonymous said...

Come to think of it, Ming Yi and Kong Hee (Fatt Choy) are two sides of the same coin.

One heads the Buddhist Division and the other Christian Division.

Their personal conduct and goals are exactly the same...

Anonymous said...

some people mouths are quite loose when they go on a "trance".

you live by these people words, you die. you build on their words, it will crumble.

do we need them?

your call big shots!

Anonymous said...

Promising anyone heaven(religiously) when himself/herself has not been there, is pure lying if not cheating.

All who promise and does not deliver are charlatans.

Anonymous said...

deprived of understanding or light, they created their own version of 72 virgins in heaven. LOL.

Anonymous said...

To anon 2/6/10 15.27

So to my good Christian friend, can you please enlighten me viz:
1) Did Jesus ran `amok' in the temple grounds.
2) Did God chose to punish and banish his chosen people - the Israelites?
True Christians are no bozos nor cowards nor zombies. We will literally kick the arse of anyone who stray in God's name - be they pastors ,priests, deacons, pagans -including those who have very big mouth but very little between their ears!

Anonymous said...

then you have to be very stupid to lift grace beyond comic book reality.

that guy could be a very good target for your boot. LOLOLOL

Anonymous said...

I prefer to give S$50 to the 80 years old cleaner lady which I did last week at the food court.At least I know I have done some good and I feel good helping a fellow human being.

Plumber

Anonymous said...

I know that CHC once printed many CDs to criticise new creation church, when many of its members left to join new creation.

Losing members = losing income. I can understand if that upsets kong hee. But to attack another church with printed CDs? Is that what people's offering money is being spent on?

I understand city harvest's intentions of buying into suntec. Some say they did it more because they want to evict New Creation from its premises rather than city harvest needing more church space for its services.

Not surprisingly, during city harvest agm meeting, people are praying and shouting to God, claiming in God's name that the wealth of new creation church will flow to city harvest church.
I thought that was very childish, and it made the city harvest church look like it is full of bitter individuals.

Anonymous said...

I say let the garhem LIQUIDATE all the assests and give them to all the poor in Singapore...

Certainly such goodness will not be objected by GOD, agreed???
hahahahaah

Alan Wong said...

I sure don't mind giving a couple of hundred thousand if I can close the deal of the century worth S$310M. Obviously there must be some winners and losers in the whole deal.

The obvious winners are those with their pockets full while the losers are those who give and give and get nothing in return.

It's worse for those who are taken as fools yet they still think it's worth it and questioned back if they are not complaining, why should you. It's what I called the absolute fool. Don't question God.

Anonymous said...

Mr Lucky

//
Sometimes I get comments in my blog that seem to suggest that I'm against organised religion or that I'm arrogantly atheist in my thinking. Nothing is further from the truth.
//

You cant be arrogant 'cos you are already certain that organised religion is for fools! In case you have not noticed, your faithful readers are eagerly waiting for your coup de grace against Christianity.

//
What I'm strongly against are charlatans who take advantage of others
//

Now, your little pet ... the co-called Skeptic ... said something about innocent until proven guilty. I think you better teach him a lesson to wake up his ideas!

Having said that, Kong Hee makes Dawkins look like a Christian fundie.

Anonymous said...

do we have myopic leaders who see only the trees and miss the woods? a leadership who ravish in breeding an idiotic people for a morsel of stale bread?

erm..looks like it.

Handle said...

city harvest are nothing more than a whorehouse and a con shop. Please dun argue with the divine truth

Anonymous said...

Hello....can someone post from youtube the video `Prosperity Gospel Exposed' by RingoTV. Its good stuff. tks.

DanielXX said...

the day when the $300M deal to buy Suntec was announced, Kong Hee Fatt Choy's fate was sealed. You cannot expect to get away with this kind of outrageous rubbish using religious taxpayers' money. Sometimes hubris prevents one from seeing what is blindingly obvious to everyone: that you have strayed from your mission.

I hoppe Singapore will never becum a place for those televangelists like in the US. Watch Borat: the self-righteous clowns in those evangelist churches are the funniest.

yamizi said...

Lucky,

To my understanding is that there is another 'mega church' in Singapore that is building something big on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Creation_Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Creation_Church#Place_of_worship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Creation_Church#Senior_pastor.27s_salary

Their proposed building seems not to be questioned by the public or was made a big hoo-haa in the mainstream media.

They are planning for a good SGD1 billion. I wonder why. Hmm...

Anonymous said...

some people are just good at keeping a low profile and doing the "right thing" and not stupid thing like allowing his wife prostituting for fame.

you want to eat your caviar you must eat it quietly but when you want to rake in the big bucks...you must boast in the name of JESUS

hallelujah

Anonymous said...

je$u$ is a cash register. must remember that when i need career advancement, low in cash, business success, condos,cars and a loving relationship with GOD.

Grace to you all and see you at the end of the rainbow with a pot of Gold for those who run the race to the end.

The key is...to the end.

Anonymous said...

Someone reminded me that I once said "Greed is good". Now it seems it is legal.

Anonymous said...

In order for business, any business, to thrive, there must be a big market for it.

Hence to be a successful businessman, you must find a big market for your product and services. Sometimes there is no ready market, you have to create the market. Therein lies the skill and acumen of the successful businessman.

That includes the market for scams, using all means, including religion.

glib tongue said...

Lucky,
in other words Kong Hee is saying, "give,give,give until it hurts"
And CHC will take,take,take until it's enough"

ps: MIW thinks enough is enough.

Anonymous said...

"the day when the $300M deal to buy Suntec was announced, Kong Hee Fatt Choy's fate was sealed. "

why did they buy the building with $300 millions... the answer is pretty clear cut like in business. If you have too much money, you better spend it as expense in case some gov people has green eyes and want the share of that money by taxing and changing PayAndPay rules...

anyone doing business know the rule and game of business...

Anonymous said...

To anon 11.28

Jesus said: My house is a house of prayer, not a den for thieves! I suggest you go to youtube and view the video `Prosperity Pimps' I hope you will have the courage and wisdom to bring God's people back to the cross!

Anonymous said...

most people missed the point of the whole faith. fat cat was once a skinny cat. people who can't see that they are one and the same will never break out of the conventional seed of bondage. though some have better understanding of why we need to shed the fatness, many others are still held back by misplaced loyalty.

many are watching the wrong...court.

nevertheless, the show will go on....

it is inevitable.

Anonymous said...

God and money are incompatible. Religion is the language of the souls which money cannot expressed. When a poor guy donate 50 cts he is generous but a rich guy same amount he is stingy. Same 50 cts but when comes to religion is been expressed differently. Best for all churches to leave their running of assets to the professional accountant and fund manager who are accountable to professional organisation and standards already established long ago. Be sensible and sensitive lah.

Anonymous said...

In the game of salvation...many are easily fooled.

Donating to your church is just buying insurance for your supposed next life!

And pastors like KH are just very good insurance salemen.

Anonymous said...

They don't clean up, the disease will spread further(as it is, the support base is already quite big,rich and powerful). If they clean up the trash, they worried about tarnishing the "brand" rotten.

So probably they will try to balance the "rot" and the "brand" to preserve a semblance of...peace(some say false peace).

I call that ...Adultery(this is far DIRTIER than geyland. think about it). :)

Anonymous said...

in ST today, reported.... mt buona vista is provoking 1.5 billion very angry people.

we are harboring terrorists!!

Anonymous said...

Infidels !! buy your hope with us. the more you donate, the more merrier the gods are, the more nearer you will be with any god, the more good returns you are blessed with. You might not know, the air you breathing now is a blessing !!

We have many branches, you may choose Khristan branch, Mulim branch, Buddhee branch, Taoyeast branch, Shingtoo branch ... whatever you can think of, i will have it, if not i will setup soon.

the true good faith teaching has died long ago. now what we can do is to capitalize your fear, infidels.

buy a queue number to your hope and miracle. ACT NOW !! We are having 50% discount due to GSS. You will get 50% more blessing than you normally get!

Anonymous said...

yeah...any of these 1.5 billion f with your economy, it will send hundreds,thousands,millions into financial hades and open the floodgates of hell towards crime and vices and who knows, one day, like china, export your wives and daughters to service ah peks and school kids.

Anonymous said...

I believe religion is harmful to people. And many are sleeping with a non-existential God. I don't recognise the existence of religion. Anybody who has live some years in Japan would know that Japan is a godless society and people don't shoot each other on the head everyday like you see in Christian America. There is something hygienic of living in a godless world. Some Singaporeans are still living with cavemen superstitions. It's fine with me. Whatever that they get out of it.

Anonymous said...

If praying, prostration and giving bring prosperity, peace and bliss, me will be on all four, even if me stands to gain nothing from the blessings.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Looking at the situation, you would expect the old commander in chief to instigate an operation clean up.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Lucky

Your loyal followers are baying for Christian blood!
What are you waiting for?

Religion is bad!
So what if every single civilization was started by some religious belief?
So what if every attempt at cleansing religion, from the killing of monks in Chinese Tang Dynasty to Mao's Red Guard, have resulted in massive misery?
Science is the truth!
A few billion lives worldwide is a small price!
The few hundred thousand Christian ones in Singapore = nothing! They deserve it!

If the Singapore Gahmen says they are bad .. they must be!
Just like that sentosa guy! and vincent who?

PS: When is the selfless atheist political party coming to save us?

Anonymous said...

then what about new creation church? are they clean? they own a large part of east coast... Or they are so smart to keep a low profile to cover their tracks. lucky that CHC is garnering so much publicity. else it may continue their status.
i hope the govt will also take a look at all of these charities - religious or not. ppl's $$ should not be given to ppl like them. they are no different from con-artist; just smarter (hiding behind GOD)