Thursday, July 22, 2010

Floods : Singaporeans want answers!

Lets face it - we, netizens are not experts in flooding. However, it does not take experts to figure out that what Amy Khor said about the Marina Barrage alleviating floods('preventing a bigger disaster' were her exact words) is inconsistent with the way the barrage works during low tide when the crest gates have to be opened. We were told it was once in 50 years rainfall, then debris in drains, then later that morphed into the Stamford Canal not being wide enough. Yesterday, MM Lee said that the floods were due to 'extraordinary rainfall' and cannot be avoided. That high rainfall cause floods is obvious but if that is the main cause why haven't the flood prone low lying areas just north of Singapore i.e. in Johor had any floods in recent weeks? Is it possible that heavy rain just fall intensely onto our tiny little red dot leaving nearby areas like Johor dry? The ordinary Singaporean may not be an expert but he can tell when he is given an incorrect explanation and he can generate intelligent questions that he wants answered.

This is a picture of the areas in Singapore that has been flooded[Google Map Link] courtesy of Kojakbt:


You can superimpose that on to the canal system [Link].

I urge you not to jump into various conclusions how ever logical and obvious as they may seem because we are not experts and cannot prove anything rigorously without more data - there are also other plausible explanations e.g. underground works and construction have affected the flow of underground water. The authorities have created many convenient explanations that seems to put blame away from themselves ..and changed them along the way when the older explanations cannot fit the new observations - once in 50 years rainfall, debris in drain, etc. That is not the way to win confidence and reassure the public. There are people who have suffered serious damage to property and business who deserve better answers.

40 comments:

Lye Khuen Way said...

Yes, The MAN has gone soft !
There must be some firewall of sort blocking alternatives views/ suggestions/possibilities from real Authority.

Sad. just wade-on.

Kojakbt said...

Lucky, do take a look at this info from NEA website:
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/reference/yos09/statsT-climate.pdf

The max rainfall (mm) in a day for the past few years:

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
194 178 134 198 159 134

I do not recall Orchard Rd was ever flooded in any of these years. Last month Jun 2010 when Orchard Rd was first flooded, it was reported that the rainfall for that day was about 100mm.

Something is not right...

Alex said...

Hahahaha, think being an MP in Singapore needs to tell lies without blinking! I just wonder if these MPs could go to bed soundly without feeling stupid or they are being conditioned to believe whatever rubbish their master tells them!

Steve Wu said...

The recent floods and the aftermath is a good example of what is wrong with the public sector in Singapore.

1. The problem occurs for all to see. Yet the agencies and the ministers strenously deny and refute it.

2. No/poor solution is offered. This means that the People are condemned to relive the same or bigger problem in the future.

3. Unlike perhaps in the past, the People can discern reality from rhetoric.

4. Large amounts of public monies have already been spent on these problems. The People do not deserve this kind of results.

Anonymous said...

I think MM Lee knows Singaproe and Singaporeans very well. That's why he can say what he said.

And despite what he said, other things don't say, but where election outcome for PAP is concerned, this has never gone wrong so far.

This alone, despite his advanced age, is testimony to his high value as mentor to the ministers.

Anonymous said...

yah, testimony of the dinosaur's value to his ministers. then pls ask his miniters to foot the dinosaur's $4 million salary themselves.

methinks it's a slap on the old man's face when rains came this morning amidst the sycophantic report that he claimed it's not possible to remove floods.

also, you can be sure that pub is working furiously behind the scenes to remove the problem while mm tries to manage our expectations. pap won't want to see flooding in orchard becos that will affect property prices.

Anonymous said...

If you analyse their responses carefully, there is a clear pattern to it:

1) Once in 50 year rainfall
2) Debris in drain
3) Stamford canal not big enough

Now the next cycle is starting all over again:

1) "Extraordinary rainfall" (same as "once in 50 year rainfall")

Now wait for the next response .... similar to (2)"debris in drain" ...... followed by (3)"another canal not big enough".

Anonymous said...

He already said ACT OF GOD.

Those people affected by the floods better start your evacuation plans.

Sell your properties and businesses to those unsuspecting 100 000 foreign trash coming to Singapore soon.

Anonymous said...

Hahahaha ...

Lucky is implying Singaporeans are not DAFT.

This is an act of sedition.

Never question the word of GOD.

Anonymous said...

To some extent, there is some truth to every logical causes. So MM, often well adviced, doesn't fail in that aspect much.
Thus, the most logical conjecture outside of a full investigation is he had commented.
The usual PaP style to avert blame is to have the old man deliver the final and authority words of wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Answers were given.

BUT, were they given responsibly and sincerely??

patriot

Anonymous said...

Only now he starts to think abt God. Is it too late? The IRs have been built and the young boy is going to be hanged.

Anonymous said...

MM is telling the truth when he said this the recent floods is due to ACT OF GOD.

You see all these years he thinks that he and the cabinet ministers are god. Hence, when the Yakult minister and other ministers failed to perform it is correct to say that they are due to act of god because they think that they are god.

Anonymous said...

The more the papist continue to response to Singaporeans in this way, the worst it will be for the papist. They are so out of touch that they just don't know what the fuck is happening on the ground. Tragic thing is those in the party who has a food feel of the ground are sidelined.

Anonymous said...

aiyah, if cannot solve all the flood at lease solve one...just one area...our shopping paradise mah. Try try also must or orchard rd will end up ......can be shopping hell soon in all the travel books and tour commentaries.when that happens hor....not only low lying properties value drop like aging ministers falling hair...our shopping paradise may also go that way...ho ho ho ho

Anonymous said...

The following clip from "Yes, Minister!" reflects the PAP and civil service cast involved in providing answers to date about the flood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8keZbZL2ero

Anonymous said...

Could it be that now he is convinced that the barrage is the culprit but he is not willing to change his pet project? So he is just being frank that you have to live with it and don't waste your time expecting any changes. I am going to flood-proof my car soon so that I can have a duck-tour when Orchard Road is flooded again.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious! We should have some Yes Minister kind of show here. Keeps our sanity. On a more serious note, it is not speculation to say that primary cause is water runoff from build up area going into drain instead of the ground. And slower outflow at the barrage as pointed out by numerous posters. So the politicians are not incorrect to say that it is inevitable. But I think if we have the will, the flooding can be resolved. Widen the drains and review the timing of outflow. dt

Anonymous said...

I wonder what the FT's would think of our government who gave these kind of comments to their own citizens. Do you think they would still be keen to give up their own citizenship and become part of us? Welcome FT's, we will be in the same boat going down the Orchard Road.

Anonymous said...

I went to see the Marina barrage and noticed there are giant submersible pumps pumpinf excessive water out. (hence no need to open the flood gate all the time) BUT BUT BUT...
from the pump noise I heard, it seems that there are not the GERMAN QUALITY TYPE.... more like from PRC. NOT all are running and I suspect they may not be all functional???

NOW CHEAPER FASTER BETTER CANNOT APPLY IN ALL ASPECTS OF MATTER. Especially in BILLION $$$$ project Agreed??

Aliens Go Home said...

MM should know the problems, but he probably cant really bash his ministers in public, just like Sir Alex will never slam his players in front of the press. I am sure those involved would have gotten an ear full. One of the problems we are facing now is that no really capable people are coming forward as PAP candidates. Those that are invited for tea are Yes Men or they wanna go into politics for some personally gains, ie director of some GLC & collect bonus.

MM knows the good ones are in private sector & to be honest, if I am earning S$10k above a month, I wont wanna start my political career as just an MP. Why should I give up the pleasure of women & alcohol to be a straight-edge MP? So MM has no choice but to pay top-dollars for these 'talents' but by doing so, he created a group of selfish people that want nothing to do with us peasants, but lots of to with their own interest!

Take a look at the ministers we have now. LSS couldnt speak probably & yet he is a minister; dont you think any of the Opposition speaks better than him? WKS screwed up so many things from MAS's escape to Wang Na's killer walking across the Causway to freedom; there are just too many silly mistakes he's making & to be honest, WKS would have been fired if he's working in the private sector. Last but not least is our PM, I find that LHL is such a weakling & he's nothing like MM. When MAS disappeared, he also went MIA! He is the head of Singapore & he should be the first to address the public. He should assure us that all resources will be poured into the serach of this terrorist, but alas, he didnt appear till almost 14 days later. MM has to come out & tick us off by calling us 'Complacent' instead! Yes, it does seem like he is talking to us, but I am sure he meant his ministers. I am not a fan of MM Lee, but I do respect his drive & fight & he did, with the Old Guards & the hard working Singaporeans, made Singapore what she is today. He's trying his best but I guess the days of the A Team are gone & he is making do with this team of court jesters, which unfortunately, is led by his son!

Anonymous said...

Actually, flood is the best way to expose the garmen's incompetence and bust the myth that they are the best and justify the highest pay in the world.

They can smoke about and hide other issues like economic recovery, affordability, cost of living, etc.

But when it comes to flood, they have no way to hide it.

Anonymous said...

When all is well, you can be sure they will be gloating over their achievements, but when things go unduly wrong, nobody among the younger leaders seems confident or capable enough to deal with it, and must always end up bringing out the old man to quell the critics.

Do we really have the best there is to lead us forward? I am beginning to have serious doubts, looking at their performance over the last couple of years, and it seems to be getting into the same pattern of 'inviting the god' to bring peace to the land.

Anonymous said...

Contrary to what the resident god said, Papers reported that drainage and improvement works will be carried out in several areas which includes central districts.
So what Mm probably meant to say was, don't expect a 100% cure due to land and con-structure constrain.

Anonymous said...

PAPpies to Shittyporeans: "Eh... You die your business. You die better than I die.

Understand?

Now, where did I put those 1st class tickets for my $250K Bahamas holiday?"

Anonymous said...

I would really prefer if they could just say that it is not acceptable to have such floods, but they are not sure at this point why this is happening and they will study carefully and solve the problem. Instead they jump to a conclusion, then another, then another. You know why this is happening? My guess is minister asking for immediate answers and nobody dare to say we don't know so they are in panic mode and talk cock. That's the problem with a top-down system like ours.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Lucky

Singaporeans do NOT want answers to the flood.
Singaporeans need heroes to stand up and be counted in the coming GE.

heaven crying for us said...

Lucky,
divine intervention through extraordinary rainfall will level the playing field against the MIW,
especially on the day of voting at the GE

and the outcome for oldfart and son can be declared as an act of God.

Anonymous said...

What answer do you all want? Greenhouse effect, global warming,
Sinkapore!

Anonymous said...

More disturbing than the flood issue is the clear fact that our ministers are creating excuses to defend their own multi million dollar salaries than actually fixing the problem.

The whole PAP government is only interested in self-preservation by not admitting to faults and mistakes, putting their own interests before the nation's.

Anonymous said...

The minister alluded the flood to the Stamford canal for not flowing fast enough. Maybe they should consider getting our ....ahem....poly student to design a water jet engine or propeller(stratigically located) to speed up the flow of water. I have seen this idea used in basement parking for moving heat and stale air. Maybe we could modify the engine to adapt( above or in water) to our drainage system? Hey, could even be the cheapest,fastest and easiest solution. Bestest too. :)

Anonymous said...

After reading all flood related information, I am even more worried.

Those mighty 7 pumps are very important to Singapore.

I hope they are solid ones made from Germany types and not PRC.

And pray that machines don't break down when you most needed them.

Freak weather is going to be a norm in the next decade or so because of global warming etc

And Yakult will have many more learning experiences on his way.

Anonymous said...

What MM had said is more disturbing than the floods itself. What a SAD day! :-(

CB said...

From Lonely Planet:- Singapore is a sunny and beautiful island with its busiest and well-known shopping belt, Orchard Rd, flooded in the months of June and July.............From Starbuck:-do come and enjoy your endless serving of latte at our Orchard Outlet, Liat Tower.........

Anonymous said...

Employment opportunity:

100 workers needed as backup of the mechanical pump.

Untold by government: These 99 workers are foreign 'talents', 1 is Singaporean.

Need that 1 Singaporean to be interviewed by Media how this flood has helped him to find a job.

Fire him one month later.

Hurray, increase in GDP, employment figures,....and most importantly, minister pay!

lim said...

Well, know who's gonna foot all those bills for the damages incurred due to the floods.. The peasants.. Yes, car insurance premiums are going up because of the flood, see today's straits times.

See, in singapore, the authorities didn't do a good job, and the citizens end up paying.. Just wondering whether the widow of Mr. Chua Loong Wai will be able to get any "compensations" from the authorities..

Kojakbt said...

Bros, I can safely say that even if PAP knows that the recent floods were due to inadequate design of the Marina Barrage, they die die must also deny any of the design flaws.

Cause, otherwise, the Govt will be liable for million dollar lawsuits by the many people!

Anonymous said...

How about this: drainage system upgrade for PAP constituencies only.

Better still: make them pay the cost of it, squeezing some profit if possible. Gdp increase and more importantly minister pay increase. Will help yacob to be more motivated.

Kojakbt said...

This is what I've heard that the Marina Barrage was actually LKY's idea.

LKY was actually very proud of his idea cause he felt that by damming the rivers and forming reservoirs would help make Singapore independent of water supply from MY. He wanted to leave a legacy behind so that future Singaporeans would remember him as having "save" Singapore, making Singapore self-sufficient of water.

But alas, little did he know that it creates another problem - flooding...

Anonymous said...

That is why the Marina Barrage will never be the cause of the floods in their excuses. It is untouchable, blameless, a monument to the old man and speak no evil about it.