Saturday, February 12, 2011

Mubarak Resigns...

I was reading the BBC report on his resignation and found this:

"Mr Mubarak ruled for 30 years, suppressing dissent and protest, and jailing opponents. US President Barack Obama said that Egypt must now move to civilian and democratic rule "
- BBC Report[Link]

The current bout of overthrowing dictators around the world reminds me of how democracy was brought to S. Korea and Indonesia during the Asian crisis. Dictators and strongmen hang on to power by suppressing opponents and tweaking the election system so that those who oppose them cannot get elected. Unhappiness festers but the country carry on with the system so long as the economy is okay. Then some kind of serious economic problems emerge and galvanise the people to move into the streets. In Egypt it was explained that the high fertility has resulted in a large population of young who cannot accept the authoritarian govt and the Internet + social media help to fuel the current unrest.



But do you know what was the trigger given these people hate Mubarak so much they can't wait to get him out? Some people have called this the Bernanke Revolution. In Egypt, household spend 60% or more on food. When Bernanke implemented his QE2 in Aug 2010, food prices went through the roof



Source : Link

When people suffer economic pain under authoritarian govt, they quickly point to the govt which controls a vast amount of the nation's resources. Especially so in countries with big income gaps where wealth is unequally divided - very often correlated how closely linked people or businesses are to the govt. In Egypt's case, the rising food prices caused much of the economic pain among the people. They are not going to be bothered with who or what actually caused the rise in food prices. They hate Mubarak so he must go....they blame his 3-decade rule for widespread poverty. In a democracy, with freedom of press and information, governments have to make continuous adjustments and be sensitive to the people's demand. When a crisis occur, it can result in a change of govt but seldom a big change in the political system.

History shows that systems that depend on repression often see a build-up of dissatisfaction with govt that result in abrupt sometimes violent changes. When you need to use some segment of society to repress another, you have to reward people for loyalty so they are willing to carry out the injustice for you. There is the dirty work of spying, detaining opponents without trial or on trump up charges or thinking up policies that serve your interests. After a few decades, you find that intelligent people with principles don't want to have anything to do with you and you need to pay people more and more to get people to join you. You end up recruiting from a narrower and narrower base to as you go along because you can trust only those who benefitted the most from your repressive rule and ultimately these are people linked to your govt who have shown loyalty to you and your system rather than pure competence in serving the needs of the people. The common man whose lot has not improved will find it harder and harder to accept that you need to give out so much benefits just to hold up a system from which they derive little benefit. At some point, they will just say enough is enough...and you or your system will have to go.

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

/////////////////
You end up recruiting from a narrower and narrower base to as you go along because you can trust only those who benefitted the most from your repressive rule and ultimately these are people linked to your govt who have shown loyalty to you and your system rather than pure competence in serving the needs of the people.
//////////////////


The explains why the bulk of PAP candidates are from government or goverment-linked agencies.

I was very disappointed from the list of new PAP candidates. All of them are top level executives, which usually means they are much more comfortable with fighting for their own personal interests than for the interest of the common people.

They are not the kind of people I would entrust my future to.

Anonymous said...

"At some point, they will just say enough is enough...and you or your system will have to go."

True, but NOW is definitely NOT that point. Singaporeans are still ok with the current system. And they are afraid to vote for opposition who would ruin Singapore, as warned by MM Lee.

Anonymous said...

But I thought MM Lee is already ruining Singapore.

He appoints Yes-Men into his cabinet. He says minimum wage is bad, so they all nod their heads and agree minimum wage is bad.

He appoints close family members to key portfolios in government and calls it 'meritocracy'. He insults us to our face, and we still agree with him on his version of meritocracy.

He asks us to 'die for each other', but he served the Japanese during WW2 even being fully aware of how they were killing millions of Chinese. Integrity? And he recommended a Japanese kempeitei agent to be one of our presidents.

DareToAct said...

In the 60s, Singapore was "protected" by the British. It is a safe place to do business in, with established rules of laws (British laws). If you speak English and have some years of education, you can have a reasonably good life.

Now, why did Singapore take the harder route to become independent? Why rock the boat? Why take the chance of letting a bunch of young men and women with no track record to govern Singapore? What if they ruin Singapore?

Once a while, preemptive constructive destruction is needed -- read Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen

Anonymous said...

"When a crisis occur, it can result in a change of govt but seldom a big change in the political system."

In other words, history repeats itself?

Anonymous said...

If Mubarak were to rule Singapore, I think he will have no problem. Because instead of 80 million people, only 5 million people. Instead of 1 million sq km, only 700 sq km.

Also Singaporeans are not Egyptians.

And at least 66% of Egyptians will find Singapore a heaven, if they come here to live.

Don't say Eqyptians, PRC Chinese, India Indians, Pinoys, etc will also say SIngapore is a great place to work and live.

So what's the problem?

Anonymous said...

If you have a political that is inclusive, no prob.
But I think you have a system that's bothering on the exclusive and inviting for trouble or instability.

Anonymous said...

If you have a political system that is inclusive, no prob.
But I think you have a system that's bothering on the exclusive and inviting for trouble or instability.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who rides on the western political system is an idiot.

Are you one of them?

Anonymous said...

The power of public assembly.

Has anyone realised why the PAP govt is making even a one-man protest illegal now?

Anonymous said...

""Have a good job""??

Not even a poor paying job for many years.

In spore, if u hv a job u r like in heaven.
If u don't hv a job, it is unbearable.
Can u imagine many older people (& PMETs) who hv been ""jobless"" for many years???

Anonymous said...

Well-written. Our local media should carry such commentaries than the trash from Chua Mui Hoong.
Then again, as Lucky has pointed out, that's why the PAP is now resorting to accepting candidates like Tay Ping Hui

Anonymous said...

I look forward to our turn this year! Vote out the PAPigs!

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Lucky

Honestly, do you think Mr "I have seen UFO flying over Singapore" Goh Meng Seng will beat Mr "Auntie-killer" Tay Ping Hui in a fair election fight?

C'mon. Tell us what you REALLY think.

Anonymous said...

''
But do you know what was the trigger given these people hate Mubarak so much they can't wait to get him out? Some people have called this the Bernanke Revolution. In Egypt, household spend 60% or more on food. When Bernanke implemented his QE2 in Aug 2010, food prices went through the roof
''

Wow ... a couple weeks late but you are making good progress! Hey but that would mean admitting that it is also Obama's fault!!! *HORROR*

Maybe you want to take that back ...

Oh yeah ... so have you decided if you want this to happen to Singapore? I may have missed your answer.

Former PAP voter said...

mr lucky tan,

looks like this particular post strikes a very sensitive spot with the junior PAP volunteers!

the comment thread is practically infested with them.

i think we've hit the inflection point. it may take 2 or 3 more elections but the PAP is on its way out.

out of touch, out of ideas, and judging from the spammers on this thread....out of talent.

those of us who have witnessed the final years of suharto, ldp in japan, labour party in the uk etc....can't help but note that singapore's carrying the same vibe nowadays.

the seeds of rot are sown. just wait for the bitter harvest.

hayek said...

History 101 for everybody.

Today unemployment and under-employment is USA is around 20%. In comparison, there 100% full employment which ALL western economy in 1960s. All mainstream economist and historian try mis-inform the public why Europe and US is able to solve poverty problem then but not now.

To make things short, we have to thank 4 monster particularly for that to happened-- namely, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao.

During the 20th centuries period of revolution which lasted from 1900-1950, the moneyed-elite saw their own tribe murder, raped in a scale on seen before.

Things happening to the neighboring elite frightened them so much that they decided to share their wealth.

That explain the reason of unprecedented material well being for all western society which lasted from 1960-1970.

The downfall of communism effectively remove a mortal enemy of the rich dandy, such that NOW, they can plunder whatever they like without fear of reprisal until quite recently.

We can explain Singapore history in such context. The 1st generation PAP steal the power has to win the people from socialist like Lim Ching Siong...etc

As a result, effort were made to make housing cheap, and to raise our salary. (Without Lim Chin Siong, PAP hike property to the roof as developping China is doing now)

Anonymous said...

True, the PAP is really running out of talent. What they are getting are just sycophants. Too bad for the party.

To the PAP dogs, would you risk your precious "career" and stand up to LKY when he's wrong? Then again, to you dogs, LKY is probably never wrong. Sad.

Anonymous said...

Vote wiselee. Vote for change, not $mall change.

Anonymous said...

the you know lah also admitted that pay and pay system will not last forever. i bet only ten years left. people are sick and tired of their lousy rule. PERIOD.

Anonymous said...

//
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1110134/1/.html
//

That's why Singapore government very smart..quickly change winds on the grounds, and announced they will hold off food prices. Are they "really" doing it or is this just a PR job with hidden cost somewhere? It will be interesting to see how much of a real deal is this on the ground, and the savings passed on to people.

Anonymous said...

Me think maybe there will be a "crisis" of sort between now to the run up of elections. Either PAP will come to the rescue and show they are the heroes..or say maybe MM lee couldnt make it to this election, then they will get more sympathy votes. I pray not..

Me think they are busy working the grounds now, sussing out the dissenting voices by blocks/zone, then rezoned them into the bigger GRC. Those sure-win single wards will have a strong PAP satisfaction votes, and they can confidently send their young fresh bloods into the battle field for a taste of first victory - easily hands down. That my dear voters, are PAP rezoning strategy. Is all in the probability and number games. Only in SGP does the election zones can rezoned every other 4-5 years.

So when your PAP come knocking on your doors, welcome them warmly, then remember to vote for BIG change. Now is the inflection point. If you wait for the big ones, you will not have given them more time to outfox you in many clever ways. Old Lee will go down in history as the maker of SG, he gets his credits. But let's show him possibly one last time, that his season is gone that the last leaf has fallen for this dynasty. So he can rest in peace.

hayek said...

A country need "shock absorbing" capacity. Nothing is better than a big middle class for doing just that.

Those greedy dictators made their fatal mistake by plundering the people until they just 1 inch above surviving.

Besides satisfying their voracious appetite from robbing, those fucking elite hope also that when people are fighting for subsistence, they will forget above higher ideals.

When the so-call Bernanke shock hits, everything is too late.

The way to rule is so stupidly simple but unfortunately, wicked elite has never understand.

1) Give justice to the people.
2) Distribute the nation wealth fairly.
3) Create a strong middle class.

hayek said...

LKY in 1950s will be proud of now Egyptian and disgusted now Singaporean.

LKY in 2010s will be disgusted with now Egyptians and love now Singaporean.

This is our "progress". ;)

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Anonymous said...

Wow! The World rejoicing because Mubarak lost control of Egypt.
It was reported that stock markets all over the World rose because of Mubarak's resignation. What has the stock markets got to do with Egypt? Is Egypt going to buy the World?

Egypt going to be peaceful and prosper no end after this? Blooming stupid logic! It's just the beginning, much more will come, the Middle East will have many revolutions, not just Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, the whole Middle East will be engulf in revolutions after revolution.

Well, of course there are regimes that long and wish that other sovereigns are in trouble. The US is a certain one and so are some of It's Allies.

Anyone thinking that what happened in Egypt will have the slightest influence on the local politics will be sadly disappointed. Long before the Egyptians, there was the people's power in the Philippines, the blue and green shirts in Taiwan and the red and yellow shirts in Thailand.

In Singapore, there are foreigners from everywhere making Singaporeans lost in their own land. There is trouble in Egypt and in Singapore there is shit.

Foril said...

//
Old Lee will go down in history as the maker of SG, he gets his credits. But let's show him possibly one last time, that his season is gone that the last leaf has fallen for this dynasty. So he can rest in peace.

For someone who loves hard truth, I strongly agree that he would appreciate seeing how singapore is becoming or has become post his era. The sooner he sees it, the better it is so that he would not have to flip in his grave!

I mean, Mao is now flipping in his grave when his Party now put the statue of Confucius in the square right in front of him. Pretty Ironic -- history has a long span, but Singaporeans don't. They have very short memory when PAP comes with dangling carrots, and they don't mind the stick all over again.

Anonymous said...

//
“I think in Singapore, we stand a chance of making the one-man-one-vote system work. With amendments as we have done, you know, like GRCs.. We need to make it work. And I believe with pragmatic adjustments, given these favourable conditions, we can have more open debate.”
- Lee Kuan Yew, 1990 National Day Rally

Anonymous said...

Dreams, all dreams.

Singapore is so small that all it takes is one man to run it.

You and I cannot start change and cause public action into removing anyone in power.

#1 Information is not reliable
#2 80% of people are happy as is
#4 The uniformed groups are tame
#5 Only 3% people are politically interested.

Anonymous said...

//Singapore is so small that all it takes is one man to run it.//

From 3m to 5m with goal to 7m, if you think LHL is not trying to live up or exceed his father's legacy, to turn a red-dot into a red-block you're in your fantasy dreams. And if you think 5m is small, then ask yourself if S$4billion loss of our reserves by Temasek first lady is small change? If so, then stay on your Hope-pium. I am ready to cut my losses!

http://tradecoholdco.wordpress.com/?s=temasek

//You and I cannot start change and cause public action into removing anyone in power.

#1 Information is not reliable
#2 80% of people are happy as is
#4 The uniformed groups are tame
#5 Only 3% people are politically interested.

For #2, 3, 4 -- Please refer to your #1. If you have been reading ST and Singapore medias for your information, you are the typical "Inception" audience.
Get out of your dreams before you become an old man filled with regrets.

Anonymous said...

//then ask yourself if S$4billion loss of our reserves by Temasek first lady is small change?//

It should have been S$40billion!
Divide that by 2.5m of adult population, that is $$16,000 per adult.

Our total reserves under Temasek is $$86billion. Can you do your math and see how much money and "calculated" risks she has lost? That is our CPF monies, and that's why they kept asking you to work till 60+ years, and will only pay you by instalment despite the fact that these are your very OWN monies. Thanks but no thanks Leelites!

Chew said...

There is a funny clip that goes with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7skdIMzVJPw&feature=watch_response

Anonymous said...

whatever happen outside s'pore let it happen... it wont happen here so soon that our current govt be kick out..... coming election we'll WAIT & SEE............ i dont care who kick start the reform blah blah blah......just that sg ppl are sooooo "good citizen" we wont screw ourselves up..........^-^

Anonymous said...

Sure, but are we meant for bigger role in the world?
If so, then the inevitable must happen.

Anonymous said...

Don't expect the same kind of change here in Singapore. Met a relativ during CNY. He told me that if his unit is activated to control demonstrators, he would not hessitate to "shoot those ungrateful bastards". I'm sure he is not an isolated case. So think hard before going on the street.

Anonymous said...

LKY is nothing but an oppotunist. When the British were around, he served the British. When the Japanese came, he served the Japanese. When the Socialists were popular, he piggyback on their popularity. When the British don't like the Socialists, he immediately backstab them.

LKY was never the charistmatic leader the Straits Times portray him to be. Icon my ass! LKY got rid of his charismatic opponents by suing them for defamation in his kangaroo courts, or making use of the ISD to arbitarily lock them up. All our trade union leaders take orders directly from LKY. He wants to depress our wages and keep them down, the trade union leaders immediately come up with 'cheaper, better and faster' slogan for the Singaporean workers. They only know how to carry balls. Their mouths have been seal and conscience sold for a million dollar a year salary.

Anyone who wants to die for LKY is a moron. LKY won't even notice that you are gone the moment the winds change and you are no longer useful to him.

Alfred said...

More people need to wake up from the "Matrix".

Stop reading/watching the state-controlled local media.

Read alternative media online.

Anonymous said...

//He told me that if his unit is activated to control demonstrators, he would not hessitate to "shoot those ungrateful bastards"//

Thanks for another one of your "fear tactics". The military cannot shoot its people if there is a peaceful rally. If my own soldiers want to shoot me so that I can die for my country in this way, then go ahead. The world will be watching. While I have no doubt that LKU will reenact a "tiannanmen" square style of control, he will go down in history with a legacy changed too. If that's what he wants, by all means.

//LKY won't even notice that you are gone the moment the winds change and you are no longer useful to him//

That's how he treated the Nepalese Gurkha soldiers after they have served him loyally defending him and protecting our country. After many decades, their family or children cannot be citizens and they are repatriated with NO benefits back to Nepal when old. I am shameful of my country's lack of compassion and they will treat its people the same way once they are "old, unemployed" usefulness is gone. Here is when they dont you as a state "problem" .

If you think you can get up to the top 20% elites where you are still earning $20,000 a month by the time you get to 40-50 yrs, without being squeezed out by the cheaper, faster foreign talents who will take the job for $10,000 you are fooling yourself. Get ready to be a Hawker, Restaurantuer or taxi driver. Because there is only 20% at the top. You will be the 80% and called a whiny loser someday. That is the HARD TRUTHS.

Anonymous said...

/////
That's how he treated the Nepalese Gurkha soldiers after they have served him loyally defending him and protecting our country.
////

Gurkhas are nothing but contract workers with guns. When contract is up, they pack up and go home. Of course no benefits for them.

Gurkhas are here for internal security reasons, not for defending Singapore. They not in the frontline assault team. They also not in Commandos.

I used to admire special forces or elite teams. Full of muscles, can fight well, damn muscular. I even went to train to become one of them. Then one day, I really woke up my idea. I realized that special forces are nothing but cheap muscles, nothing better than cheap rent-a-bouncer that you see outside pubbing places in Clark Quay.

Commandos and elite force full of muscles, but die cheap and collect low pay. Ministers all fat fat and physically unfit, but super rich.

Few people can be smart and creative. A bit more people willing to swallow dignity and carry balls and backstab. All can make more money and live better.

Too many people aspire to be cheap muscles for others. Destined to have cupboard full of medals and awards but bank account empty.

Anonymous said...

How the Egyptian government tried to shut down communications leading up to the topple.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/margareta-pagano/margareta-pagano-what-are-the-business-ethics-of-revolution-20-2213071.html

Reepu said...

//Gurkhas are here for internal security reasons, not for defending Singapore. They not in the frontline assault team. They also not in Commandos.//

Is that why our police and prison are so slacked these days..is payback time for wong kan seng. Any inside scoop if they helped mas selamat espcape..hehe

Anonymous said...

//Repression can only go up to a point. When it becomes too acute, the instruments of repression, namely the army and the police, have been proved time and time again in history to have turned their guns on their masters.”
- Opposition leader Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, May 5, 1959//

Black tie said...

Inevitably the points brought up is the losses that hoching has racked up and how that erodes CPF.

But no one explains the money trail convincingly.. not even mr leong sze han. Every blog has at least one comment about how much $$ has been lost thru temesek.. but I cannot find the link that connects to CPF!

Where does Temesek gets its funds?
How are the funds repaid?

Many commentator seem to assume everyone else knows.. ask at random anyone on the streets.. or better still ask the new voters.. the young first timers.. 25 to 35 years old.. They dont give a shit.

As long as they have their K suites, their Audi cars, their match box sized apartments and zero kids.. do you think they will get out unto Boat Quay and wave our singapore flag amid the smell of burning tyres?

The handful of people that think that protests in singapore can be as dramatic are too imaginative and swallowed the red pill instead.

Air conditioning keeps the body temperature cool.. there will not be any fever, there will not be any sweat... you and I will not march through Sengkang, along Punggol road and into Serangoon road to City Hall.. we will take the MRT in air con comfort, or the bus..

Accustomed to cool air food courts, buses, trains and schools.. the younger voters will buy a ticket to watch Inception rather than break sweat along New bridge rd.. not even for 5 mins .
The Egyptains did it for more than 18 days.. the Red shirts did it for over 2 months..
The singaporean will instead play warcraft and blog in air con comfort..

who cares about politics?

hayek said...

CPF has long lost its role as a pension, even without Ho Ching.

Most of PAP reserve is FX which vaporizes when Satan Bernanke started QE. Our puny gold reserve was accumulated at the time of Goh Keng Swee. (WTF LKY was doing over these years). But to be fair to LKY, gold accumulation is deem an hostile act to US.

CPF have to be abolish. Its nothing like a tax in disguise, and significant payment goes to the US when QE started.

hayek said...

The other even more sinister role of CPF is to enrich the elites pocket. Whenever the elite want to create inflation of certain asset class, they will direct CPF monies into them.

Elite wants "asset enhancement" in property, CPF now able to buy property.

Elite wants "asset enhancement" in certain stock behold, CPF will "approved" the stock.

Elite wants Singaporean to buy the funds they run. CPF will "approved" the fund.

FUCK CPF. I would like to buy PHYSICAL BULLION, the safest asset class you can find in the whole universe.

Unfortunately, this idea in hostile to every elite in the whole world. Dont dream of getting green light.

Eve said...

http://www.tracked.com/company/temasek-holdings-private/holdings/?t=new&q=3,2010&i=-1

http://johnharding.com/2010/07/05/singapores-temasek-takes-on-baroness-vadera/

jamesneo said...

yes precisely when this fx starts to become worthless as the US cannot afford a strong dollar policy anymore due to its QE2 and future QE3,4... to "stimulate" their economy. On the day of reckoning, it is only the puny amount og gold that we possess that will save us. Singapore should think very carefully whether we want to be allies with US or want to be neutral in our relationship with US and China. China and the other SCOs will eventually push for a new monetary system with real things( gold silver) as the assets.

Anonymous said...

Whoever is running the Opposition Party this GE, I would like a straight and honest reply from the PAP to the following questions.

1) What is the % of Singaporeans vs PRs/Residents over the past 5 years. Please do NOT lump them together, as they are distinct group altogether.

2) What is the % increase of PRs/Residents who have become Nett New Singaporeans over the last 5 years? %/# of conversion vs 5 yrs ago?

3) What is the % of jobs created locally that went to Original Singaporeans (OS) vs Nett New Singaporeans (NNS) over the last 5 years? Yr on Yr breakdown please.

4) Of the NNS , please give a breakdown of their income group <1000-2000, <2000-5000, <5000-10,000, <10,000-20,000, >20,000 . This would give us a reality of how much NNS(previuously known as FT) are taking away local jobs

5) Of the total FTs(those Singapore residents & PRs ie. not yet Singaporeans) what are their income brackets again, please breakdown by the above #4.

6) What is the %/# of local OS who have emigrated over the last years. Then we can have a genuine comparison of Nett New Incoming of FT vs New Old Outgoing of OS.

7) Of the Nett New Singaporeans, what percentage of created babies/started a family? What is the Nett New increase by %/# once again over the last 5 years.

Until MOM comes clean with open transaperency of stats and numbers, we cannot judge or refute that FTs are not taking our jobs away and that they have successfully contributed to the renewal of our falling birth rates.

Show me the numbers MOM! I urge all Opposition Parties to keep our PAP honest on this front.

Anonymous said...

By now any clear thinking person would have realised the old man is nothing more than empty talk and false bravado. It is also true he was never charismatic. When the winds of change starts blowing in his face, you will see how fast he chickens out and does u-turns. Politically astute? Cowardice is more like it.

Anonymous said...

How does US QE2,3,4 impact the main street or our currency. Are there helpful links you can point me to so I can learn more about it.

hayek said...

To get informed of what elites are up to, go dig in www.zerohedge.com

Link below is an explanation of QE.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=player_embedded

Alan Wong said...

If PAP or LKY can't even keep a simple promise of allowing us to withdraw our CPF at 55, what other promises can we expect them to keep for us ?

Remember if we want to withdraw our CPF funds even though we are told that we live longer, that is still our prerogative.

Who is PAP or LKY to decide that we can't do it ?

Do we want a govt who decides for us that we must have enough money left for our coffin ?

Anonymous said...

Lucky Tan,

your headline says "Mubarak Resigns..." but how come after reading, I thought you were talking about the little red dot rather than Egypt?

Bhaghita said...

Hello I am Bhaghita from BBC.

Thanks for the post and comments here. I am doing a piece on healthcare in Asia, US & America. This is an interesting forum to get some ideas of what's happening in the grounds in Singapore. Keep up the good investigative questioning!

hayek said...

Those who proposed CPF are really thieves. CPF do not work even under economic theory. Enforce mandatory savings is only fair when there is long term price stability-- aka when a country is in gold standard.

Fuck CPF, the whole SG middle class pays 35% tax without any welfare, not even discount in healthcare.

CPF was started on 1 July 1955. Using gold as a counter-party comparison, CPF would have lost 70% of value if you assume yearly interest is 2.5%.

Anonymous said...

To Anony @ 13/2/11 05:06 ..

Than i guess i have no choice but to shoot your relative 1st instead...my apologies..

Those who shoot civilians deserves a bullet! And another bullet for supporting evil without conscience and wrongful orders too!

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