Friday, April 15, 2011

Minister Mah attacks WP's affordable housing plan....

Last year Hazel Poa of NSP caught Minister Mah fudging the numbers to show that housing was still "affordable"[Link.] I thought Minister Mah would have learnt not to do something so deceptive again. Unfortunatlely, we will have to catch Minister Mah again....this time for fudging logic...

"Minister Mah Bow Tan warned against the Workers' Party (WP) call for cheaper HDB flats on Thursday, saying it would mean larger subsidies for housing at the expense of other needs, such as healthcare, education or defence.

Calling the opposition party's manifesto 'irresponsible', he noted that the WP had not said where the extra money would come from, and pressed them to reveal the implications of their proposals." - Straits Times (see article below
).

Minister Mah calls WP irresponsible for its plan to provide more affordable flats. He says that cheaper flats means more housing subsidies and  less money for education and healthcare. Let me ask you a simple question. In the past few years when the price of HDB flats surge by more than 50% , by Minister Mah's logic, the govt should be awashed with more money from selling HDB flats for healthcare and education - if that is so, why did the govt implement means testing to cut subsidies for healthcare and why did they have to raise school fees for universities and cuts subsidies for education of children with special needs etc?  The fact is budget has little to do with HDB selling price. If anything, when the HDB prices go up, the HDB actually shows more losses due to "market subsidies" which increase proportionately with price. Why is this so?

1. Land sales are not included in the govt revenue in the budget. This has been a long standing issue because it distorts the fiscal picture and Sylvia Lim of WP has called for the situation to be fixed[Link] so that Singaporeans can get a more accurate picture of govt expediture vs revenue.

2. A large component of HDB flat sale price is due to cost of land priced at the market.

3. HDB buys land from SLA at market price. The revenue of land sales is not included in the budget's revenue figures.

4. The HDB then includes the land cost plus other cost to price new HDB flats. It then sells it at a "market subsidised" prices to flat buyers.

When the price of flats surge up by 50%, no significant amounts of money went to subsidise healthcare and education. Similarly, if the price rise of flats is kept close to changes in median incomes as suggested by the WP amd  by pricing the land sales to HDB accordingly, govt healthcare and education expediture will not be affected.

Linking public housing to median income changes is sensible because if housing price move significantly vs income, it means that Singaporeans have to take up more debt to financed their home purchases. Every where else in the world, public housing is priced for affordability and not directly linked to market prices. The high debt taken up by ordinary Singaporeans pay for expensive new HDB flats...most of the money eventually goes into our reserves i.e. GIC. The issue of risk free gains when 1st time buyers sell in the resale market can be addressed by lengthening the lockup periods for selling the flat and limiting the number of timeas a person can buy directly from the HDB. In the long run a healthy steady state should be  housing market where prices are closely correlated with inome gains. When you have prices moving up 50% without the corresponding gains in income, debt piles up and a bubble forms.



--------
NEWS
Apr 14, 2011

Mah Bow Tan: WP manifesto 'irresponsible'
By Teo Wan Gek

National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan warned against the Workers' Party (WP) call for cheaper HDB flats.

NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan warned against the Workers' Party (WP) call for cheaper HDB flats on Thursday, saying it would mean larger subsidies for housing at the expense of other needs, such as healthcare, education or defence.

Calling the opposition party's manifesto 'irresponsible', he noted that the WP had not said where the extra money would come from, and pressed them to reveal the implications of their proposals.

'You can't get something for nothing,' he said on the sidelines of the Urban Redevelopment Authority's Corporate Seminar.

The WP had unveiled its 63-page manifesto on Saturday. Called Towards A First World Parliament, it contains proposals on 15 broad areas of public policy, with a number focusing on hot-button issues like public housing and immigration.

One of the key points under public housing was to allow for cheaper HDB flats by pegging the price of the flats to the median incomes of households that qualify to buy them, instead of pegging them to resale market prices. Another was for flats to be affordable enough that mortgages can be paid off in 20 years instead of 30.

Read the full report in Friday's edition of The Straits Times.
http://www.straitstimes.com/GeneralElection/News/Story/STIStory_656833.html

127 comments:

Ben said...

Yes, so long as the sale price is pegged above construction costs (hard construction costs, soft costs and financing costs but not land), the government does not need to come up with more money. One way to insulate the rest of the 99 year leasehold public flats market is that these "cheaper-er" flats are sold with more restrictions eg 30/60 year lease, 10 year MOP and if sold, can only be sold to Singaporeans. This will give new Singaporeans the choice to buy a cheaper public flat and with the option of investing the balance of their wages for retirement. To prevent these lowcost flats turning into slums, the government will have to cease selling new 99 year leasehold flats once this is implemented.

This idea looks ilke its turning into a monster already (and it goes against the PAP mantra of rooting (or chaining) Singaporeans to Singapore through creating something that Singaporeans will die for in defending Singapore) but I do not think the asset enhancement model is sustainable in the long run - not when a couple has to work 30 years to pay off a housing loan leaving little savings and no choice but to work all their lives and even unlikelier option of one of the two being a stay home dad or mom.

Anonymous said...

Why would a couple saddled with a 30 yr mortgage, meaning none can be jobless during this period, have any thoughts of having children to complicate matters? and also to take care of aging parents? Perhaps the "A" team ministers can provide a solution.

Anonymous said...

"Unfortunatlely, we will have to catch Minister Mah again....this time for fudging logic..."
Lucky Tan

Catch or no catch, fudge or no fudge, logic or no logic, Minister Mah will most likely win again.

And Goh Meng Seng will likely lose again.

Boring outcome, isn't it?

Agree or not?

Anonymous said...

PAP is unlikely to bring down housing prices, even though they will still be the government.

Opposition will definitely not bring down housing prices, because they will not win enough seats, let alone be government.

So for high housing prices, it is hopeless to depend on PAP or opposition.

The only solution is to emigrate to a better place and with cheaper housing.

This is where we can learn from foreigners here. Because they, like Singaporeans here, had similarly felt hopeless in their own countries. That's why they emigrate to a better place called Singapore.

So why can't Singaporean do the same, if they are feeling hopeless?

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the above poster statement why singaporeans do like others who emigrated to singapore...

He/She has to understand many of these "new" foreign emigrants are allowed easily into singapore plus there are existing PAP policies to benefit them 1st over the locals...also quite a number of these "talent" were pursued by the PAP government using tax payers monies for scholarships/etc...

In other countries, their governments policies are the mirror or reversed of PAP policies...ONLY REAL and PROVEN "foreign talents" are allowed and even than you don't see these gov't molly coddling and baby sitting them all the way using tax payers funds.

The above poster needs to open his / her eyes wider and re-think or find more factual information. And than decide what he / she has posted and the reasons stated is holistic enough and true in the face of the facts available of how other countries government policies makes sense vis-a-vis PAP government policies.

Good day.

Anonymous said...

How do you solve the ppl's problems when those who claim to understand the problem can't even get along with those who create the problem?
As voters, they probably look at your guys as farming idiots.

Anonymous said...

Farking there but my device spells it as farming

Anonymous said...

You guys are fighting the wrong battles. But is your call.

Anonymous said...

To those who kept saying that oppositions won't make a different because of potentially limited seats, I disagree and observed that the oppositions have actually made a lot of progress on the ground since the last election. We desperately need more alternate voices in the parliament and every small step the oppositions take counts.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we need to publicise the weakness in Mah arguments. As a dad myself, I do not mind a lower resale price now, if I can be assured that my children will have an affordable HDB in future, pegged to their affordabilty, not market price. I like WP long term vision, which sadly, Mah do not have.

Anonymous said...

the way i see it...the old fukkers up there are thinking strategically ... and those down below are working at frustrating the strategies.

neither party is working for the interests of the ppl. ha....

Anonymous said...

Can we even ...trust the ppl? F. LoL

Anonymous said...

noooo.....can we even trust anyone..muahahaha

Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

"We desperately need more alternate voices in the parliament and every small step the oppositions take counts."
Anon 15/4/11 11:35

There is no place for small steps in the pro PAP GRC system.

Either you win big or lose big.

And given the type of opposition now, which voter in his right mind will want them to win big??

Like it or not, this is the reality.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we all know. It is about...winning

Anonymous said...

Seriously, the oppositions come across as very..NAIVE

Anonymous said...

But the rulers with their noses up in the air are deluded so....good show ahead. lol

Anonymous said...

Aiyah...all being fucked by even BIGGER PLAYERS...muahahaha

Anonymous said...

And they say..VOTE

F lol

Anonymous said...

haha..too much edukation in the head becomes wayang...hahaha

oh no, butt we are SERIOUS...hahaha

serious my FOOT HAHAHA

Anonymous said...

For the longest time people have bern asking, what's the Spirit of SIN? There is apparently no consensus on that but if you figure it out, who knows, that maybe our answer?

Anonymous said...

MBT should take up GMS challenge for a debate live on TV on the HDB issue. With thousands of netizens reading political blogs etc, it would not put MBT in good stead if he chose to shy away from that challenge. Come on MBT, show to GMS and WP that you know best when it comes to cheap and affordable public housing.

Anonymous said...

This mah is rubbish. The high price of hdb flats is mathematically due to insufficient supply and increase demand due to increase in population. but the main cause of the high price is due to his laziness and slacking on the job.

Anonymous said...

The HDB upgrading clutch is going to cost $$$ billion. Where do you think the money is coming from?

First, huge influx of foreigners are imported to Singapore. More foreigners means more levies are collected and more tax are collected from foreigners.

Second, more stricter mean testing for medical subsidies so less money is spent on medical subsidies and money saved is channeled to HDB upgrading.

Third, universities tuition fees are raised so that less money is spent on students and the money saved are channeled to HDB upgrading.

Fourth, if money still not enough to pay for HDB upgrading,
ERP, property tax, GST, etc. are raised to obtain more money for HDB upgrading.

Like what Mah said:
'You can't get something for nothing',
we can deduce from common sense that HDB upgrading is not free and Singapore Citizens have to pay high price for HDB upgrading.

Anonymous said...

You watched them on TV?

Out here they talk tough. Once you put them on show, they French kiss. lol

Anonymous said...

LOL

Keep it clean folks, keep it clean LOL

Anonymous said...

i suppose, they think toppling tables will win you...friends.ha......

Anonymous said...

They are not friends, they are ...French Kissing. LOL

Anonymous said...

According to many rich sinkie, putting their money in CPF are the sore thing they had done. The reason is the government of a country are like god. ie They can create money from nothing. By saying that the flat will go-up in value, the Government said that they will print money to enable the price of your flat go up every year.

look at CHINA, even their currencies are undervalue, they still hold or increase slightly their exchange rate. How they do it, they print money to buy American dollar and then buy American' commodities to enable their inflation spread to America. To help their own people, they increase their bank saving interest rate.Everybodies win except the foreigner.

Look at Singapore, The Government still kept the bank saving rate so low. Poor SIngaporean had to bear the high inflation and lost out.

Why can't Bank Offer better rate? it is because they have no need to borrow from the Poor SIngapore through their bank account. Whatever Amount of money needed will be supplied from the Government Money Printer. The Government had become a competitor to our poor Singaporean. For the rich Singaporeans and foreigners, many have bought properties with the help of the bank loan. Increase in interest rate is negative to them. NO need to guess, where the government heart are leaning toward with..

Anonymous said...

There is no need to insulate resale prices. As long as the gov does not increase the prices of new houses, it will provide an upper limit to how high resale prices can go up. And that will inturn limit how high mass market private property prices can go up. This is the best way to limit the housing bubble. But of course the current measures provide more money for the gov. As far as I can see the gov tries to squeeze more money each time there is a problem, not so much solve the problem

Anonymous said...

I have 3 kids. At the rate housing prices are going. They would have to live with me for the rest of their lives. I'll be quite happy if housing prices go down to what it was 5 years ago. Anyway, it's mostly the rich who will be in trouble.

Anonymous said...

French cuisines and now French kissing.ha

Anonymous said...

Actually those who bought property as investments 3 or 4 years back would be laughing all the way to the bank now.

And thank Mr Mah for it.

Be a winner, not a whinner, in all situations.

They are part of the smart 66%.

Anonymous said...

They don't believe Mah. The Gov believes in Mah.
Where does this lead to?
A 15k reward for french kissing in parliament or topple the Gov?
Turn to the voters?
The voters are clueless basically and their decisions establishes nothing.

What's next?

I suggests PARANGS(dont haul me in, figuratively speaking only hah)lol but, up to your imagination lor lol

or, wait for the effects of negative economic policies while you waste our time, and taxpayers money, in parliament.

In short, it changes nothing

Anonymous said...

Aiyah, these morons, very desperate want to SERVE the peeple...grant them their wish laaah ha

They so gian to SERVE the peeple, we don't grant them..they KBKB day and nite how to sleep and make babies ha

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

@anon 14.01 ....apart from property developer, how many local Singaporeans are property investors. Only a small percentage benefited from this surge in property prices ie. developers (HDB included), the rich, the well-connected and banks. If you are daft, that doesnt mean everyone is.

Anonymous said...

Suggestion.

Why don't the garbagemen offer 15k to everyone so they can all "serve the people" lol

Anonymous said...

no wonder serving god is such a lucrative business.

Anonymous said...

Voters want to know...how are you going to take MBT down without taking down the Gov or SIN?

Or are you lying to get to the Jackpot.

Anonymous said...

Anon 15/4/11 14:29

You must be daft not to know that few years back banks easily gave property loans to borrowers to buy 2nd or 3rd property as long as they have a decent, stable job and income.

These borrowers are by no means developers or the very rich, they are just ordinary professionals like engineers, executives etc with an above average income and a bit of guts.

YK said...

It is almost impossible for the land sales prices to be revealed since it will just place the prices of our HDB flats under even greater scrutiny.

Anonymous said...

You see, they only know how to wayang. When comes to the crux, they offer you nothing. A pot calling the kettle black?

Anonymous said...

Zillions of dollars are at stake.

You might as well go to WAR

Anonymous said...

Told u GMS is n idiot

Anonymous said...

---------------------
3. HDB buys land from SLA at market price. The revenue of land sales is not included in the budget's revenue figures.

-----------------

But SLA does not buy the land from private owners at market price.

SLA had used the Land Acquisition Act to forcibly acquire huge tracts of land from farmers at way below market prices.

A typical example:
SLA probably acquired a large piece of land in 1960 for $100,000 from all the owners and resold the same land in 2009 to HDB or private developers for $230 million.

HDB, being one part of the huge public housing mechanism, may be making a loss on accounting. But in the big family picture, the government has raked in billions and chanelled some of those profits to HDB.

Still think that HDB/govt/SLA is making a loss from building homes for Singaporeans?

hayek said...

"HDB price will tank when opposition took power."

Focusing on the issue of reducing HDB price, PAP has managed to scare the home-owners to vote for them.

I have a painless way for opposition rally.

Instead of focusing on reducing HDB price, opposition should consider raising Singaporean salary for the middle class.

The effect will still be the same and everyone is happy.

Anonymous said...

George Bush has started an ill-timed and disastrous war under false pretenses by lying to the American people and to the Congress; he has run a budget surplus into a severe deficit; he has consistently and unconscionably favored the wealthy and corporations over the rights and needs of the population; he has destroyed trust and confidence in, and good will toward, the United States around the globe; he has ignored global warming, to the world's detriment; he has wantonly broken our treaty obligations; he has condoned torture of prisoners; he has attempted to create a theocracy in the United States; he has appointed incompetent cronies to positions of vital national importance.

 
Now, would someone please give him a blow job so we can impeach him?

Anonymous said...

Did you realize that the serious comments are the most...amusing?

Anonymous said...

"HDB price will tank when opposition took power."

More than that.

If opposition taaks power, a lot of skeletons will come tumbling out of the closet.

You will then seen how "corrupt-free" Singapore really is.

That's why one particular fella dare not retire from politics while all his peers have long retired.

That kinda explains why leaders of countries like Cuba, Burma, Libya, Egypt, Syria all cannot afford to or don't dare to retire.

Anonymous said...

Now we got to get GMS to carry arms. Hope he has the guts.

Anonymous said...

but he is trained in...French kissing dear.lol.

carry balls better lol

Vodka said...

SG was ranked #133rd out of 175 in 2009 for press freedom. In 2010, we are now #137 ranking, worse than and far behind Morocco, Iraq, Cambodia, Zimbawe and Egypt!!

Enough said. Why else do we expect our Minister llike MBT to come clean? We live in a widespread opaque system in SG. We have officially a standard of living that rival Russia (UBS report) & ranked close with Russia on freedom of press. I think Russia is our new best friend now. The Oligarchies continue.

http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html

http://en.rsf.org/singapore-open-letter-to-prime-minister-lee-25-03-2010,36832.html

Anonymous said...

Hilarious to watch CSJ speaking to the hokkien/aged mixed in with some chinese..no english subtitle unfortunately ;-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcXYYcWjtI

But all the issues are serious topics nonetheless.
Good job!

TK said...

Why can't MBT reveal simple home ownership rate/ upsize/downsize, cost base & subsidy data by different income segment & across ages for the last 50 years so that we can decide how successful the HDB home-ownership really is? That way young people can make informed choices to see if they wish to have this asset-enhancing or liability-enhancing program? Time has changed and people's needs too. Singaporeans have the right to make informed choices.

www2.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnvironment/.../SocialHousingInEurope.pdf

WhatPrice? said...

Do we owe our existence to PAP?
A 17yo young girl wrote a very compelling argument of freedom over stability trade off. That was in 2006, 5 years later, we are asking this question AGAIN!

If you're an older voter with children, I urge you to think about your mindless bondage. If you're a younger voter, please do the right thing for your own generations. Everyone should ask - AT WHAT PRICE? Is a very lame clutch that PAP wants you to carry for perpetuity to even entrench its invisible power in place. I am sure we will be back again in 2016 to argue the same thing ALL OVER AGAIN if we don't start a more urgent nation-building - that is voting for a world class parliament of alternative voices and representation of singaporeans.


http://easyapps.sg/sgep/admin/file.aspx?id=105

Anonymous said...

Just read a family of 3 (parents & son) was attacked by the hawkers from china. This one happened at the clementi foodcourt -- and the singaporean family has to run for their life. Bruises and punches and medical treatment & all..who're the people that bring in these "quality" talents??

Anonymous said...

MBT and his "trust" word again.
I think based on the earlier example where he came up with his voodoo arithmetics, why do I have to trust him again? That was his track record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F_FtcgH1MM&feature=related

Anonymous said...

For that matter, why should we trust anybody? L

Anonymous said...

aiya, if mah wants to make more $$ he just need to build higher..airspace is free wah..

he said at URA seminar - next decade and beyond, higher-rise housing of more than 30 storeys! So more money to make..just go up - PAP fav word! kaching

Anonymous said...

I have only one question. What will happen to the price of existing HDB flats, and what will happen to owners of existing HDB flats, if the new HDB flats are priced according to the median income?

I foresee that prices for existing HDB flats will drop. How drastically? I don't know. But existing owners, especially those who bought their flats at peak prices, will unfortunately have to carry on paying a high price for their flats. Selling their flats will mean losing a whole chuck of their money.

Do we ignore these group of people? Now I don't own a flat now, and I'm all for lowering the cost of new HDB flats, especially since I'm planning to get married soon. But I recognize that existing flat owners are Singaporeans too. So unless the WP has something planned, I'd think that this housing plan marginalizes a certain group of Singaporeans too, just as the PAP's policies marginalizes the poor. Pot Kettle Black.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who bought property at peak prices are screwed, no matter how we look at it.

I feel sorry for those who are that unlucky, but I don't see why the vast majority have to be screwed, just to accompany those who bought at the peak?

Anonymous said...

either they are stupid or they are lying.

I tend to believe they are both.llll

Anonymous said...

The wonder the old man welcomes them ha

Anonymous said...

We pay Mah Bow Tan millions to screw up housing.
You keep this system going, soon the good men will turn evil too.

PAP is evil.

The Pariah said...

Workers Party is trying to take responsibility for Minister Mah Bow Tan's IRRESPONSIBILITY of allowing runaway property prices!

WHAT GOES UP MUST COME DOWN!

Since HDB flat is for owner-occupation and you can't LEGALLY buy more than one HDB flat at any one time, the inflated price is:

- PAPER GAIN (Can see, Cannot touch); OR

- PLAY-PLAY GAIN (Sell high, Buy even higher)


The Pariah
www.singaporeenbloc.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Yes to the Orchid revolution!

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/orchid-evolution-sweeping-pore-veteran-editor-20110415-035611-590.html

Anonymous said...

What subsidies ? Market subsidies ? This land space for housing is more than enough for our own population (2m to 3m including children) & should be equitably shared among its own citizens @ very affordable price.

This land should not be expropriated by strictly free market mechanism (or encouraging such tendency) enabling powerful private money to carve out a better slice on properties and hence cause an upward pressure on overall pricing.

Anonymous said...

/Do we ignore these group of people? Now "I don't own a flat now, and I'm all for lowering the cost of new HDB flats, especially since I'm planning to get married soon. But I recognize that existing flat owners are Singaporeans too. So unless the WP has something planned, I'd think that this housing plan marginalizes a certain group of Singaporeans too, just as the PAP's policies marginalizes the poor. Pot Kettle Black./

Would you prefer to see the prices keep on going up having the comfort of enhancing asset value (on paper only as one needs another one to stay) while the increasing higher price may impose on yourself or you sons after getting married sometimes beyond your ability to own a house or to service the mortgage.

When you have cut off your nose, do not blame people from trying to stop you from gorging out their own eyes while you have mistakenly believe that others should make good your ability to smell the rose. Do not call others POT just because you are the BLACK KETTLE. Others are trying to prevent themselves from getting the black stain from your BLACK KETTLE rather than making your KETTLE white.

Anonymous said...

GMS, when are you going to carry arms?

But we think you prefer French Kissing

it is safer LOL

Anonymous said...

Sylvia said...blame the voters. Good one.haaaa

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

keep the HDB prices going up.

everyone will be laffing.

hope they'r still laffing
at 60/64, when they'r still
paying their mortgage, no
one wants to employ them and
they have only a miserable
handout from CPF Life, not
enough to pay for meals then
even in a hawker centre...

keep the HDB prices going up.

Anonymous said...

to anon 19.06:

The price of resale flats may not be affected much by pricing new flats to median income. This is because the new flats are made available one-time only to Singaporeans. The resale market is a separate market.

Anonymous said...

We don't go into cabinet saying......YES BOSS

WUAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

Repost @Yahoo by Colonel Kurtz

How Mr Mah allow HDB prices to spike 14.1% in 2010.

An NTU academic asked HDB to take action in 2009, to cool down the market.

"'Severe asset inflation'
By Melissa Tan
Aug 11, 2009

SINGAPORE risks 'severe asset inflation' during the economic recovery, a local economist has warned.

But this danger can be averted if the Government acts now to control the prices of HDB flats, said Mr Paul Yip, Nanyang Technological University (NTU) associate professor of economics"

For the whole of 2009, Mr Mah insisted that the prices are affordable and there is no bubble.

"Sep 15, 2009
HDB flats still affordable
8 in 10 households qualify for grants; first-timers use less than 30% of household income to service loans
By Goh Chin Lian, Senior Political Correspondent

HDB flats still affordable, says Mah
8 in 10 households qualify for grants; first-timers use less than 30% of household income to service loans. -ST

Thu, Sep 17, 2009
The Straits Times
By Goh Chin Lian, Senior Political Correspondent
Flat prices will rise but still be affordable

December 14, 2009 Monday, 05:25 AM
SINGAPOREANS can expect the prices of HDB flats to keep on rising as long as the economy continues to grow, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said yesterday.

Housing prices set to rise, but govt committed to affordable homes
By Joanne Chan, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 29 December 2009 2315 hrs

HDB flat supply will meet demand: Mah
Sat, Jan 16, 2010
The Straits Times
By Rachel Chang

This means they can comfortably buy any of the flats offered in the latest BTO projects this month, said Mr Mah.

Finally, 1 year after the NTU academic's warnings.

Mr Mah finally acknowledges there is a imbalance in the market

Jul 25, 2010
'Imbalance' in resale HDB
By Melissa Kok

THERE is an 'imbalance' in the HDB resale market and it may take around a year or so before prices of resale flats will stabilise.

These comments were made by National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan on Sunday, who was addressing concerns about the prices of HDB resale flats, which have been consistently rising since 2008.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone shed some light on how
many properties do our ministers
and cronies own in Singapore?
Perhaps, there is a selfish motive
to keep HDB prices escalating.
The late wife of the ole man was
known to own a property investment
corporation.

Anonymous said...

"Following the Workers' Party's (WP) reiteration on Wednesday that prices of new flats should be pegged to median income, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has said that the real intent of this was to reduce prices, which would be an "asset depreciation policy".

HDB flats are over-valued due to the artificial demand created by the government liberal immigration policy. With all the PRs coming in to complete with us, locals, on the limited flats. If the government has claimed that HDB flats is subjected to market forces, then let market forces dictate the prices. Workers party policy serve only to make HDB flats affordable for the first timer- the same kind of prices that those already have their HDB flat used to enjoy. How can a 99LH leasehold property appreciate in prices forever. Mah's remark is fundamentally flawed and and shows how little understanding he has of the market and the local's concern.

This post has been edited by Iridrium: Today, 11:39 AM

ChainReaction said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1tzIRkIFs0

Will you vote for a peaceful orchid evolution?
Join us and many who wants to make a real difference and constructively for our beloved Singapore.

If not now, then when?

Anonymous said...

"The price of resale flats may not be affected much by pricing new flats to median income. This is because the new flats are made available one-time only to Singaporeans. The resale market is a separate market."

What is there to say ppl (also eligible first time buyers) in the resale market may consider new flats if the prices are attractively low enough, hence taking the pressure off the resale market.

Of course, the pressure on prices on resale market will still be there if the eligibility to purchase is artificially being expanded e.g to include PRs, foreigners or any tom, dick or harry.

On the other hand, you may build more new houses but the eligibility to purchase may be hindered by the ability to pay (low income) or the necessary pre-requisites to secure loans.

Anonymous said...

"Minister Mah attacks WP's affordable housing plan...."

Not only Minister Mah attack lah.

66% will most likely attack too, not by criticising like what Minister Mah did, but by voting for PAP.

And it this 66% that delivers the killer attack, not Mr Mah, not PM Lee and so on.

Lucky Tan, maybe you should change the title of your post from Minister Mah to 66%.

And rewrite the whole thing. Because it is the more important thing.

Anonymous said...

HDB should be cheaper, better, and faster. LSS should replace MBT and use the CBF on HDB.

Anonymous said...

I don't live in Tampines,but I really hope the voters in the GRC will boot MBT & the unfortunate team who is tagged along with him OUT of the parliament.

This is the guy that brought us COE/ERP/PeakHr/CBD etc that has expanded throughout islandwide, and still have not solve the traffic congestion. To conclude on HINDSIGHT- using ERP as a tool to regulate traffic is all balderdash. He's trying to do the same with HDB now. I hope we have the fortune NOT to experience his naviety and unsympathetic policies.

He lives in a bungalow off Holland Road. What does he know about HDB living? He lives and drink his champagne, and the people live and drown in pain.

A Mother said...

The voters and younger generations of today are all educated and have healthy aspiration.

As a parent,I just don't understand why Mah Bow Tan cannot share the data of government subsidies with the people. Buying a house is the single most important and expensive thing any individual will have to make in his/her lifetime. My son have been contemplating over private condo or HDB or even renting for the short term. I feel the people have the right to know. Please be more transparent. Our children have the right to make informed choices.

Anonymous said...

More TPL damage control. All the motherhood statements, is there anything new she is adding here?
Still scratching my head over her candidacy.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/tin-pei-ling/my-thoughts-on-caring-for-the-elderly-in-singapore/194812483893987?ref=mf

Learn from Sim Ann! <The word foreign talent connotes talent has to come from elsewhere....and singapore has alot of talents". Wowza, she got my vote. Now onwards, I will judge her on her action during the term.

ThisChanGuy said...

This BG Chan is so yaya-papaya. He speaks, preach and acts like one old PAP crook already, even before he start his campaigning! His fear & seige mentality is not working - sounds like Bush leegime all over again. People you owe it to yourself & children not to buy into his snobbish stance.

http://www.razor.tv/site/servlet/segment/main/specials/General_Election/62370.html#/site/servlet/ajax/page?channel=contentbean%3a59830&view=asLargeVideoListBoxPage&page=1&autoLoad=true&video=contentbean%3a62370@59830_largeListPage@1302989480307

Anonymous said...

Anon 13.23:

If the sellers of the resale market have not enjoyed the first time grant yet, then there is nothing wrong for them to dispose of their resale flat and buy a new one. That's the point isn't is? To provide affordable housing for Singaporeans.

FullofShits said...

When shits happen, how does our PAP MP react?

LHL - Wat to do. Shit Happens.
Indranee - This Shit happened before.
Mah - Knock knock, "Shit who? "Shit happens "
Chee Hean - If Shit happens, take a hostage
Khaw - When Shit Happens is it really shit?
George Yeo - If Shit Happens, I deserve it
Dr Vivian - Shit happens on Saturday
Shamugan - Shit Happens Rama Rama Ding Dong
Boon Heng - Send More Shit
Gan - Let's smoke this Shit
Swee Say - Shit won't happen if I work harder
MM Lee - No Shit

Anonymous said...

hahaha..you forgot WKS.

Run away Shit!

Anonymous said...

HDB flats, although now very expensive, is still the cheapest available lah.

Ting Pei Ling, although cute and young, is also the best 87 PAP candidates available lah.

boh her hay ya hor (No fish, prawn also good lah) if that's all you have.

You die die want to eat, have house to live and have MP, then choose the best available lah.

Anonymous said...

Many years of writings and criticisms in the Internet.
How would the coming election differs from the past?
Will the contributions from the socio-political bloggers change anything?

Hokkien Nang said...

Your msg is good. Better in Hokkien though!

MA said...

Social political blogger are also activists of a different kinds. Over the years, peoples' ability to present their alternative thoughts and rational views have gotten better. And hopefully this trend will continue, so that more people are not just merely "consumer" of blogs and views, but also participate and debate & sharing key data actively. If it is any indicator to go by, the coming election has shown bloggers have come together to express, critiques their positions against alot of policies that have affected the people personally. Let's face it, not everybody has the time to take part in the ground RC/CC or want to for obvious reasons.
How else do this vocal group be heard? Can you name any tools and mechanism that is currently in place by PAP that actually promote or allow that?

There is a place and role for political bloggers. All it needs is an inflection point for the wisdom of crowd to take this wave and effectuate the transition of a more open society without major disruptions. And it goes beyond just the perfunctory & superficial twitter or facebook likes currently managed by PAP to look good and engaging on the surface come elections time.

If leave you with this

" A man is like a fraction whose numerator is what he is and whose denominator is what he thinks of himself. The larger the denominator, the smaller the fraction."

Anonymous said...

Mr Leong Sze Hian defends WP's proposal.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/04/hdb-leong-sze-hian-responds-to-mah-bow-tan/

MBT - If you won't change your position based on facts presented to you (or refute them with facts of your own) then there is not much point to the discussion. More importantly, if there is no chance for someone to convince you they are correct, then why should you be accorded the same opportunity?

Anonymous said...

"MBT - If you won't change your position based on facts presented to you (or refute them with facts of your own) then there is not much point to the discussion. More importantly, if there is no chance for someone to convince you they are correct, then why should you be accorded the same opportunity?"
Anon 16/4/11 17:12

Why would MBT care whether you had accorded him the same opportunity?

66% will most likely accorded not just him, but also 85 or 86 others of the PAP camp the opportunity to remain as or become MPs.

Anonymous said...

//66% will most likely accorded not just him, but also 85 or 86 others of the PAP camp the opportunity to remain as or become MPs.//

What makes you so damn sure?

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Lucky

Look. Your fellow liberals retards are destroying the oppositions election even before it started.
In the meantime ...
Cow is importing Doctors from CHINA!
Hen is importing Teachers from INDIA!

The time for talk is over. Your children's future may already be over (and it could be a short one) but lets give it a shot.
It is time you pledge your support to ONE of the opposition parties. I would like to suggest WP.

Cassandra

Anonymous said...

"What makes you so damn sure?"
Anon 16/4/11 18:49

Although I am ordinary Joe, but my gut feeling very chun (accurate) one.

For your info, a not so ordinary Joe also share my gut feeling.
See http://www.temasekreview.com/2011/04/16/p-n-baljis-gut-feeling-pap-doesnt-lose-any-seats/

100 said...

Yes, vote for Wet Panties

Anonymous said...

Let me ask the ordinary joe this question.

Do you have the guts to say that you're one of those who support the "idea" of Opposition, but lack the guts to allow it to happen in your wards?

Citing another average joe from a state-owned publication for his gut-check is like listening to a weather forecast run by government who predicts lightning never strike the same place twice.

Anonymous said...

PAP will still win 2/3 majority. Question is how many seats will Opposition gain.

With the dangling of NMP, the slate that are supposedly representing the alternative voices of singaporeans, is quite amusing that they didn't consult with the people how and why these NMPs are appointed on what basis?
And unfortunately, alot of kiasi & gutless voters will simply fall for it, so it might actually deny the mandate for Opp candidates.

Anonymous said...

"And unfortunately, alot of kiasi & gutless voters will simply fall for it, so it might actually deny the mandate for Opp candidates."
Anon 16/4/11 20:59

Not say PAP is really good lah, but with the kind of opposition we have, there are good reasons to be kiasi.

Why do you want to "si" (die) for the wrong reasons?

Anonymous said...

Lucky,

I overheard Mah saying in the news this evening that the land is like the reserve of Singapore and asking the SLA to sell land lower than market price is like taking from the reserve... which is why we need a highly paid president etc, etc,.

I do not have a deep knowledge what the Singapore government does with our so call reserves. What I do know is that the investments made by GIC and Temasek so far are far, very far from impressive.

The government cannot even afford to pay decent interest on our CPF... money that is practically locked-in forever. If given a choice, I think we can easily find a wide range of investments with better rate of returns for our CPF e.g., insurance companies.


Under the current policy that has been clarified recently, HDB are built for Singaporeans/PRs to STAY. No if, no buts.

There are also strict policies for the limited rental flats and the government does not allow us to sleep on the street or in the parks.

Therefore, even if it is so call "tapping into the reserves" and asking SLA to sell the land "below market" to HDB for the citizens/PRs of Singapore to STAY, is it so bad???

If we have a choice i.e., call for a referendum to ask the people whether
1) we want to accumulate our reserves by charging us high price for HDB (effectively taking money from us) and letting the gamblers and speculators of GIC play with OUR money in the hope that some day we will need and draw on the "reserves", if it has not been gambled away (oops! I mean invested and achieve negative returns by GIC) and is still available then, or

2) do we want a cheaper and more affordable HDB that benefit us NOW, I think the answer is quite clear.

This is another example of the PAP making simple things complicated to confuse us. It is like PAP charging the poor GST and then create jobs for civil servants to distribute the money back to the poor??? I am just too stupid to make sense from their arguments.

RookieLim

GST N MRT Fares will increase again. said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpj4rmX48G4&feature=player_embedded

Crimebuster said...

HDB $300k where got expensive?!! Try $675m instead. And they don't call that raiding the reserves..they call it "investing for higher returns"

Everything the Party & the Gov benefits. Tell me where do Singaporeans get - $600-800 per person for the next 4 years!! Who're the thieves?
----

GIC says booked loss from $675mln Stuyvesant investment

Reuters reports, "The Government of Singapore Investment Corp [GIC.UL] said on Monday it has already booked losses on its investment in Stuyvesant Town, given the New York apartment complex's debt problems.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/11/gic-stuyvesant-idUSSGE60A0EF20100111

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_6zUapQ7PE&feature=related

People Wayang Party Again? said...

PAP is evil. It is not a compassionate government. Cost of living is too high in this country. Help! Cost of living is a bigger issue than foreigners!

But it seems these foreigners are all working PRs from China and India, they are not men or women fellow singaporeans married. But they are worker bees brought by the government to replace our children's job. Good luck to those university undergraduates in NUS, NTU and SMU when they graduate this year. How are they going to get jobs?

They will read the newspapers that employment is high but the reality is that even their last year's senior have not found jobs. It's scary to see your juniors graduating and you still haevn't found a job.

Somebody, please help the complacent and sleeping Singaporeans.

God help this country.

Anonymous said...

Even as a SWF they would argue never to put all your eggs in one basket. So, naturally I think we should also never put all our blind faith/hope in one Team A. Even a layperson like me understand.

http://furrybrowndog.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/are-temasek-and-gic-really-better-investors-than-singaporeans/

But what is sick to my stomach, is that while govt had accumulated soooo enormous sum of reserves, yet they keep depriving its people the wealth they have helped to create. Does that not violate your sense of fairness and justice? And no one is suggesting we spend ALL of our reserves, but come on, this is the clear cut case like MPs making milllion dollars while the people suffer. If you even buy into the future" opium in their manifesto, you're truly a daft. Why don't they be ACCOUNTABLE to the people first, instead of trying to neuter their voices and rights, including the PRESIDENT's!

Anonymous said...

"This is because the new flats are made available one-time only to Singaporeans."

I don't think if young Singaporean couples have to wait 4-5 years for a BTO is the idea of making new flats available to them.

These young Singaporean couples already find the system bad. And the system was made by Minister Mah. He has mismanaged it all and hurting many young couples.

What is he forcing couples to wait 5 years? THis is UNNECESSARY PAIN AND SUFFERING.

AND ALL YOU FUCKING SELFISH SINGAPOREANS WHO ALREADY HAVE A FLAT, PLEASE SPARE A FUCKING THOUGHT AND CONSIDERATION FOR THE REST OF THE SINGAPOREANS WHO ARE MARRIED AND HAVE TO WAIT FOR A FUCKING FLAT FOR 5 YEARS WHEN MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE YOUR CHILDREN OR YOUR FUTURE CHILDREN. STOP BEING SELFISH AND KIASU AND PUT THAT MINISTERT TO ACCOUNT.

Where is the transparency, Minister Mah? You are hurting us!!!!!! Why are you doing this??????!!!!!

To all SIngaporeans: PLease SPARE A THOUGHT FOR OTHER SINGAPOREANS! DOn't be KIASU!!!!!!

Change the system and stop complaining!

Christ already!

DisillusionedNDisenchantedSingaorean said...

Even today...no a single Singaporean knows how much it costs Minister Mah Bow Tan to build a HDB unit?

This information still remains eleusive after 45 years of nation building.

I think people have already lost trust with our government.

It is clear that people know about all these things lah. They are talking about it.

It's a bad system. We all live it. But ministers are not born in a HDB flat and they don't live with HDB heartlanders. They use the RC residents to do their dirty work so they do not need to dirty their own hands.

By the way, I was driving near Marina Bay Sands and I saw white canvas placed over new ERP gantry points nears to the Singapore Flyer.

GST, MRT fares, taxi rentals and more ERP gantries and prices will increase by the end of this year.

Cost of living is really high in Singapore.

Some changes I have made to my life to survive in Singapore:

I buy a wholemeal bread to each 2 slices every morning and make my own cup of coffee. The whomeal bread is $2.30 per week. I can save a lot of money here.

I stop taking taxis even when I'm tired. THe problem I face, like many others, is that I am late for work because the feeder buses are overcrowded and so are the trains. I leave for work early but the waiting time is long as the buses are fully packed and won't stop for me. I have to wait for the second or third busese or trains to arrive.

I still come late to work but I told my boss, the buses and MRTs are too crowded. My boss didn't say anything. He told me to come out earlier. That means I have to leave home 30 mins earlier than my already 50 mins journey + 30 mins early usual time. I need to leave home 1 hr earlier before for a 50 min journey to work.

How thoughtful and compassionate of my government. They give me $$$ before election but they don't fix the bus and transport problem.

No more taxis for me.

No more movies for me.

I am planning to reroute my journey to work. I intend to walk 15 mins to a bus stop and take a bus back to the interchange then take a feeder home. This way, I don't need to take the lrt and mrt plus bus home. And save more money.

What can I do? This is what is happening to my promised "Swiss standard of living."

I can't imagine after they increase everything after the election, how things will be like?

Already many middle aged aunties I know are voting for the PAP when they receive their money in the letter boxes last week.

So I think the people really have forgotten once you give them money.

And things starts all over again.

Anonymous said...

Someday the tide will turn. What goes round will come back to the perpetuator.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122791989311765753.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Good night.

Anonymous said...

MP JOsephine said that there is a law that says that singaporeans must be hired first. Where is that law? I have been searching high and low for it?

There is no such law that says Singaporeans are to be hired first.

Why did she say such a thing?

Anonymous said...

Singapore Strikes Again

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122791989311765753.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Anonymous said...

This giy really need to be fired and we need someone with fresh perspective to look at the housing issue. I think he too long on the job already.

ToYoungSingaporeanCouples said...

Singapore private home prices rose 17.6 per cent last year despite government attempts to cool the market in February and August.


http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My+Money/Property/Story/A1Story20110330-270925.html

Minister Mah is not telling the truth again.

Anonymous said...

"I overheard Mah saying in the news this evening that the land is like the reserve of Singapore and asking the SLA to sell land lower than market price is like taking from the reserve."

Technically, the whole piece of land belongs to the people of singapore. So what is so wrong as to price it cheaper or at zero cost and make it easier for the people in terms of affordable housing or roof for the people rather than charging high (taxing on existing income / potential future income not yet earned and no gurantee of earning) which goes into the reserves which again belongs to the people.

As for reserves, how are you going to know the basis of redistribution as far as individuals are concerned whereas the charging of high land cost (hence HDB flats) is immediately felt hitting one's pockets currently and for many years to come for HDB flat owners.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p1tzIRkIFs0#at=207

Please spread this as best as you can. This is a national service duty! :-)

Anonymous said...

My friend was telling me that the want million dollar salaries so they could use their personal money to silence the opposition through law suits.

Anonymous said...

From so many comments, it seems a lot of people not happy and satisfied.

But for 45 years, at every election, at least 60% voted for PAP.

Which means only 2 possiblities:

#1. At least 60% happy and satisfied so they voted PAP.

#2. Some of the 60% not happy nor satisfied but still voted PAP.

Realistically I would think it is more likely #2 case.

This coming election, will the #2 case vote opposition this time?

I would say yes, and PAP % vote will definitely drop but they will still get at least 55%.

Unless majority voters, although a lot may be very unhappy, want opposition to win big, which is also very unlikely.

And due to the GRC system, and with just 55%, PAP can still win 86seats out of 87 !!!!!

It is very possible because Singapore is small and urban. With a good design of the SMC/GRCs, you can roughly have the same mix of unhappy and happy, rich and poor people in all the GRCs and SMCs. And PAP knows this and that's why every election they always redrew boundaries due to this reason.

Therein lies the reality of Singapore politics and why PAP not only will win but also wins big.

Very sad for those who suffer under the system. They have to help themselves because even God can't help them.

Anonymous said...

i hope PAP makes a clean sweep 100% this time round.. only then will people wake up within 5 years and see the truth of the system

Anonymous said...

Basically, on the demand & supply theory, if there is less supply of HDB thus there is more demand & these will increase the HDB price. However, we have enough supply of HDB houses hence there should not be a reason for the exponential increase in public housing prices as they are meant for the public:- SG citizens such young couple to setup family, elderly who wants smaller flats & retire, nuclei family - these are schemes of SG thus public housing should be rights presented to the locals instead of locals fighting for their rights & esp today as the birthrate is low, thus SG community is in sustainable size where the supply of HDB should be at surplus, which should automatically decrease the price.

Anonymous said...

singaporean hate waiting for housing,and moveover hdb housing is not free for us,we hv to pay for it.some couple cant wait at spike up due to many reason.if gov ready care for our hard work etc etc,they should think for us and not finding so many excuse.we all singaporean help to build up this country,beautyful country but end up,ask yourself,we gain what??an affordable housing which we hv to wait for many yrs??by rewarding us giving so many rule,policy??

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