Tuesday, April 26, 2011

Discrimination against the poor with foreign spouse...

My sister, a community volunteer, told me what she saw with her own eyes. A PAP minister was showing a new candidate around the estate when a resident approached them for help. The man's problem was that he was a low income earner married to a foreign wife. The man's long term visit pass(LTVP)  has been rejected many times by the ICA and he wanted to know if the MP-to-be would help him. Before the MP-to-be could utter a few words of sympathy, the minister replied the man, "We can't please everyone".   In every other developed country, when you marry someone, your spouse is granted citizenship. In Singapore, your spouse is granted citizenship only if your income is high enough. So when your income is low, not only do you have to live in poverty, the govt puts up all sorts of impediments to make it hard for you to lead a normal life.

What prompted me to tell this story is a article in The New Paper today (26 April 2011)-the article is found on page 4. The front page headlines is about Vincent Wijeysingha's sexual orientation, which is going to waste everyone's time and distract everyone from more pressing national issues. The article is about a security guard called Damien Koh who fell in love and married a Vietnamese woman. His wife was granted a LTVP but not PR (or citizenship) because he earned $1500 a month. They have 2 boys both are Singaporeans. Two weeks ago, Damien had a heart attack and passed away. The article discussed how his wife is at a lost because Damien the sponsor for her LTVP  is no longer around. Luckily, the MP for the area is Lily Neo and she will try her best to help her with the LTVP . When contacted, Dr. Lily Neo said there are "many foreign spouses living in HDB rental flats in her ward".

Let me tell you what is very wrong here. If a high income man marries a foreign wife, his wife can get citizenship or PR easily and will be entitled to things like subsidised medical care (class "C" wards)etc. However, if a poor man marries a foreign wife, he may not even get a LTVP and his marriage will be strained and have a higher chance of failing. If he manages to get a LTVP (which has to be renuewed annually), his wife can stay to help look after the children but without citizenship or PR, he has to pay substantially more if his wife gets sick - unnecessarily increasing his financial strain.

Here is another case of a low income man who over 4 years was rejected 20 times by the MoM for is permit to get married because the woman he wanted to marry is a former work permit holder[Link].

Singapore has the largest income gap among developed countries and a 3rd world wage structure. Because of this, there are many hardworking Singapore men who work full time jobs but get very low income.  While the PAP govt says it wants Singaporeans to procreate and lift our fertility rate which has fallen to one of the lowest in the world,  they make it hard this large group of Singaporeans to get married and start a family. These men have served their national service and are expected to die for their country but are denied citizenships for their wives..... citizenship that is given out by the thousands to newcomers who do not serve NS. The new PAP candidates all came out to say they want to help the poor. So are they going to live up to their words and fight for this this unfair policy to be changed? Probably not because it is consistent with other PAP policies such as baby bouus and tax rebates that only encourages procreation only among higher income Singaporeans.

79 comments:

Maverick said...

the key point here is a citizen's right to equal treatment, especially if the citizen has done NS.

The state expects its citizens to fight and die in a war but is not prepared to guarantee the right of that citizen to marry an ex work permit holder because he is not earning enough.

The rich foreigner is given PR or citizenship when they deposit the right amount of money in our treasury. And of course he does not have to do NS. Ridiculous!!!

Only a multi pary parliament of alternative voices will be able to undo these injustices.

Anonymous said...

Knew a guy who wasn't highly educated and not earning a high pay. But he was a very upright sort of fellow, a person one would be proud to have as a friend. He married a Cambodian girl but couldn't get residency for her despite many tries. In the end, he had to decide - dissolve the marriage or moved over there. He moved. That was back in the mid-90s. This has been going on for some time now. One of the govt policies that are not spoken of but understood. In Singapore, money talks - LOUDLY - definitely not right but a sad fact of life, with the current govt leading by example.

Guy from a poor family said...

The government is doing these blokes a huge favour. If their income is enough to support only themselves, they should first work hard at increasing their income before thinking of starting a family. This will save their kids and themselves some heartache in the future.

Guy from a poor family said...

The case Lucky cited - Damien Koh the security guard who earns only $1.5k a month and who insisted on having two kids with an uneducated vietnamese woman.

Even if their mother is granted Singapore PR, what can she work as? Cleaner earning $1k a month? Is this enough to live by in Singapore?

In the end, who suffers the most? Their two kids!

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Damien Koh should not be allowed to marry the vietnamese woman in the first place, and that was what the government tried to do.

Anonymous said...

Ya, sometimes in order to be kind, you have to be cruel.

It's an irony but necessary.

And most important, as long as those you are "cruel" to is not the majority of voters.

That settles the question.

Guy from a poor family said...

These cases remind me of a Singaporean man who insisted on having a baby despite having HIV. He was willing to risk of passing HIV to his baby, just so he can have a son to carry on his lineage.

Same principle here. Income not enough to support kids, but insisted on having kids to satisfy personal want.

Plain selfish folks.

Anonymous said...

Do have some compassion on them.
Only can understand if you are in their shoe.
Their lives are already hard ,don't make it harder for them.

Anonymous said...

.....the minister replied the man, "We can't please everyone".

Ya lor, can please 66% good enough already.

Actually, no need 66%. If I can design my GRCs and SMCs properly, even 55% good enough also, if this can win 98% or even 100% seats in Parliament.

Anonymous said...

it is the same reason why so many s'pore women (who are spg) marry western men for their $$$

Anonymous said...

You know, sometimes when animals are badly injured or sick, they are put to sleep. Seems cruel but this will then relieve their pain and suffering. Hence it is kind to them.

Guy from a poor family said...

Anoy 26/4/11 13:02

You are right. Their lives are already hard, don't make it harder for them.

These low income Singaporean men are already struggling to feed themselves on their low income. Why let them suffer more by letting them feed 3 more persons (a wife and two kids)?

Why let the kids suffer? They will probably have to work part-time in McDonalds to supplement the family income, neglecting their studies. End up working in blue collar jobs for the rest of their lives, and the poverty cycle restarts. Why let them go through this suffering?

Maverick said...

Dear Guy From a Poor Family,

I know kids from families in the lower income bracket, not unlike the like Damien Koh situation. They did not have the opportunities or the priviledges of the middle class or the rich. But they worked hard and are successful professionals.

Many high achievers come from humble backgrounds. A society which discourages procreation from the lower income group is losing out on the contributions of battle hardened success stories.

Why should we deprive families from the lower income group, the challenge of getting ahead in life and contributing to society?

Anonymous said...

After the General Election,

The relentless influx of Foreigners will result in

More harsher job market.

Singaporeans jobs taken over by Foreigners,

Thereby leading to loss of income by Singaporeans and

Default of Singaporeans housing loans.


It is crystal clear that the doors will be swung more opened after the general election to let more foreigners to come here.
The huge influx of foreigners are going to inflict more adverse impact on the employment of Singaporeans than what we have seen over the last 5 years.

While we do not know who are the unlucky ones who will be replaced by these foreigners, we are very sure among those readers of this blog, including their family members, relatives, parents, brothers, sisters, children, grandchildren and their friends, it is certain that some of them will have their jobs taken over by the foreigners.

It is not that you are not aware what is happening or pretend that you do not know. By the act of reading this now, you have known that if you are not doing anything to prepare and change the destiny, when you or your closed ones whose jobs are taken over by the foreigners, please do not cry.

What is the consequence when you lose your job to foreigners? You lose the income to pay off your housing mortages if you are already owning HDB flat or private property. You will face the dire consequence of your HDB flat or private property being forcefully taken away by the creditors for defaulting the housing loans.

If you are not owning any HDB flat or private property, you will not be eligible to apply for any loans to buy HDB flat or private property as you are jobless. It is very likely that you are unable to find any job soon that will match your last drawn salary. Even if you manage to find a job, your salary will not be enough to pay for the sky high expensive HDB flat or private property.

From the tsunami infux of foreigners, Singaporeans have witnessed the huge adverse impact done on the employment, housing, healthcare, public transport, education and the society at large by the present of these foreigners.

The future is in your hands.
You decide what kind of future you want for yourself, your parents, brothers, sisters, children, grandchildren, relatives and friends.

Anonymous said...

"Many high achievers come from humble backgrounds."
Maverick 26/4/11 13:36

Not really that many lah, they are more the exception rather than the rule.

Last time, say 20 or 30 years ago, more likely because there are more families with humble backgrounds.

Now more difficult to compete lah if you are from humble background, as more families are richer now, compared to the past.

Anonymous said...

Whether these low income guys deserve to marry a foreign spouse or not is not for us to debate. If everyone can be so in control of their lives, to rationalise, then most of us can be cabinet minsters. It is very unfair to throw the blame back at these guys. Have a heart, isn't it one of our grouses with the government. If the government do not even want to take care of a small segment of the population, who will?

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 13:17

Animal you!

hayek said...

Re Guy from a poor family
///////
The government is doing these blokes a huge favour. If their income is enough to support only themselves, they should first work hard at increasing their income before thinking of starting a family. This will save their kids and themselves some heartache in the future.
///////

What is your occupation dude? Wherever occupation you from, if PAP increase participant by 10x, I see how your salary will go?

Don't talk about work hard to me.

I can easily make a roadsweaper millionaire by trade union and cartel which limits their numbers to less than 100.

Many poor man do not know that their plight is due to the fucking PAP.

Anonymous said...

People who visit this blog are likely to be more informed. The majority are deprived of the alternative views and PAP's propaganda weapons would intensify in the coming days to ensure that they remain "DAFT"!

Ender said...

Two income earners make raising a family easier.

With the wife on LLTVP, she is unable to work in Singapore and contribute much to the family finances. The financial burden of raising the family lies heavily with the man on a meagre salary of $1500.

Take away the housing installments, the family in living on very thin margins.

If the wife is granted PR, she would be able to contribute to the family income. Assuming that she earns $1000 per month, the combined $2500 income represent a 66% increase which will lighten the burden of raising the family.

This will also make it easier for the family to absorb the financial shock should any one of them loses their job.

The government should reexamine their policies on promoting healthy family formation as well as arresting the declining birth rate.

Simple measures like granting PR to foreign spouses do not require any welfare payments on the country's part but instead help to promote a sense of belonging among citizens which will aid nation building.

Ender

Anonymous said...

If so many man marry foreign spouse, what will happen to singapore women. Aren't Singapore women voters. Should they vote for the PAP?

If the spouse is foreign, will the children be Singaporean?

If spouse is foreign, should we discriminate against them in medical fees etc?

Maverick said...

Dear Anon 13:36

Yes, I agree its very competitive these days. But how does one measure the "success" of a child from a humble background in the competition?

if the criteria is a straight "A"'s student then perhaps you may have a point. But if the criteria is an academic acheivement which is better than their parents or within average median, then progress has been made to break out of the poverty cycle.

Poverty is not a problem or a nuisance we tolerate but an opportunity for a nation to display its core values of care and mutual help.

You maybe right about the exception to the rule with reference to poor kids who become high achievers but the quality of a society is determined by the value we attach to the exceptions which break through. And maybe from these exceptions we find a Mandela or Gates. Competition does not cause division but should bring out the best in us.

Anonymous said...

Sidetrack a bit

Why didnt the opposition capitalise on the Profitable Group incident? It seems that more questions need to be asked on if better measures can be in place to protect Singaporean.

Anonymous said...

On 1 May, everyone will receive about $600 to $800 cash right?

To the rich, peanuts lah, but to the poor, a lot man. Sure vote PAP one for this cash.

By the way, the poor also most probably won't read Lucky's Blog but when they see cash, that's it, PAP very good.

Anonymous said...

Anon @13:52

That being the case, the govt should do more to help those from poor background, not put more obstacles in their paths. Afterall, we are not created equal - some will be smarter, some stronger, some faster...

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

Anonymous said...

Surprised much? People should stop feeling surprised at such incidents. Well, if they stopped and actually examined PAP policies all this time.

This is a political party that has been in power for over four decades and have been practicing social engineering on a large scale.

If you examine the earliest of measures introduced to boost the fertility rate of Singaporeans, you will notice all of them belong in the rebate-class of measures - i.e. the government stops taking money away from you, lightening your tax burden if you have children.

With our current tax structure in place, the various rebate measures are rather pointless to low income families.

They only benefit those who actually pay taxes in the first place. And you actually need to earn enough to benefit from it.

Yes, the PAP discriminates against the poor. Why so surprised? After all, they already said it very clearly since 2003 that they know income inequality is going to get worse and they are not going to do anything about it.

Anonymous said...

"Why didnt the opposition capitalise on the Profitable Group incident? It seems that more questions need to be asked on if better measures can be in place to protect Singaporean."
Anon 26/4/11 14:29

"About 4000 such investors who bought the products expecting high returns are now at risk of losing their money."
Channelnewsasia 25 April 2011 1936 hrs

Now 4000 investors. How many % of the total number of voters?

Anonymous said...

I think the "hidden" intention behind the rule is to ensure Singaporean men do not go the easy route to "buy" foreign wives, i.e. mail order brides. But looks like it's not working and most Singaporean men still prefer to buy wives off the catalogue from Cambodia, Vietnam, China etc. If that is the case, the law should be changed to ensure these wives can get citizenship easily. Having said that, that may create more social problems, i.e. foreign brides treating the marriage as an easy way to get Singapore passport.

Anonymous said...

#1 Actually, the government get a lot of foreign workers because no locals or not enough locals want to do the jobs.

#2 By the same logic, our local men get foreign wives because no locals or not enough locals want to be their wife.

Why the government seem to encourage #1 but not #2 although same logic is quite obvious lah. Although both can create social problems, but #1 contributes to GDP but #2 does not mah, tio bo (right or not)?

Anonymous said...

This is sad fact. When factory workers came in the 90s, their passport is stamped with the condition that they are not to get married. There are many cases like this and Im sure that the govt is aware of this, but they are selectively denying these group citing low incomes as the reason. Obviously the smart alecks dont want the poor to burden the system. What I find disgusting is the double standard the PAP stands for. 1 for us and 1000s for them

Guy from a poor family said...

How many kids from poor families go on to become successful? 10%? Then what happens to the other 90% who struggle their entire lives? You can ask these low income bachelors, are their parents also low income? The poverty cycle repeats itself, there is no fairy tale ending here for the majority of kids born into low income families.

Maybe you guys can sponsor one low income bachelor each by giving him $1500 a month to start a family. Are you willing? If he have $3k per month, I have no issues with him starting a family.

Fuel and Parafin said...

Hello guys,

Stop worrying for these low income earners. I bet they will be richer to you once their wife is granted PR. their foreign wife can work as prostitutes and rake in 10k/mth.

Wash the pussy clean with dettol and she is brand new again. within a few years they will be your neighbour in some surburban condos eh.

They are pissed because LTVP govt can revoked if their wife is caught whoring not for PR though.

I support the govt in this aspect, letting one low income foreign wife in means one more new prostitute to spread std.

Of course i have enjoy many of these donkey's wives to make an informed statement. with condom of course. LOL these low income donkey do the paperwork, we get to enjoy thier wife for $150 per 2 hours. nows thats a bargain. with luck, you can even arrange 2 wives for the reduced rate of $200. prostitues are sure to know other prostitutes. it makes more interesting when i see their husband face on their handphone.

SO lets go ICA, the biggest whore importer in SG.

Guy from a poor family said...

Income is not a fixed attribute. If the bachelor wishes to start a family, he should improve his finances first by upgrading himself. It is plain selfish to want to have kids when you can't even support yourself. The government could have easily granted PR to their foreign spouses, it wouldn't make a difference given the large number of PRs they give out. But they would rather suffer the brickbats so as to protect the children.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lucky
I'm just surprised you did not use the one word that accurately describes the incident you write about.

The word is "Plutocracy"
Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

Singaporeans would do well to familiarize themselves with the characteristics of plutocracy.

So the next 5 years will not be a surprise if a certain party wins.

If the thing looks like a duck.
If it walks like a duck.
If it quacks like a duck.
The "thing" is probably a duck.

Even though the "thing" says it is not a duck.

Anonymous said...

1. When I was young, we were poor but being singaporeans, we had the opportunity to go to school and came out poverty. So having poor parents won't result in blue collar workers!

2. I married an ang moh but not for his $$. We marry for love and I'm living overseas now because my husband could not find a job in Singapore. We would love to return to Sg one day.

3. Indeed, he was granted PR within 3 months of our marriage. He had no job then but because I was a graduate? I wish the same could be given for those lower income couples.

Please don't look down on poor people. They are the ones that need more help from the govt.

wen said...

Also, with the LTVP, the spouse cannot work and help contribute to the income of the family.

Anonymous said...

"Cannot please everyone?"

This is Singapore. 4 million Singaporeans only and 1 million foreigners.

I expect the government to please all 4 million Singaporeans.

This is not the US of 320 million in population nor Japan of 180 million in population.

This is Singapore. I expect all Singaporeans to be pleased.

Why are we paying you million dollar salaries for you to please only yourself?

I don't see the japs and americans paying top dollar.

If you pay yourself millions, I expect the few millions of Singaporeans to be all pleased.

Anonymous said...

Blue collar workers in other 'first world' countries like Australia are treated with respect and dignity, they earn a decent wage (some make MORE than decent salaries) enough to raise a family and they can marry any woman they want without having to beg for their foreign spouse's residency!

Considering PAP loves to brag about being 'world class' in every way, why is it that we treat security workers, cleaners etc with such disdain and disrespect and pay them such a pittance that they cannot even raise a family?

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr Lucky

Great post BUT the elephant in the room is Mr Vincent Wijeysingha. That Mr Tan and Mr Ang, from the so-called Christian "Taliban", is standing together with him says a lot about Christians in general about LGBTs. They dun particularly give a damn. SDP has come out to confirm that there is no Gay agenda. That is good. Now, as the de facto leader of the opposition net brigade ... Mr Lucky ... pls rein in the hysterical LGBT rabble who are playing right into VB's hands. As per Mr Ravi, if you want to push the gay agenda ... YOU NEED TO GET ELECTED. Pardon the caps. Bashing Christians and pushing aggressively for Gay rights ... after the election pls.

Anonymous said...

Please don't judge the world through your materialistic tainted glasses.

If a man wants to raise a family, living from hands to mouth and finds happiness during the process, so be it, to each his own.

These people are not asking for handouts, just the basic right for a foreign wife to stay in Singapore and make the family unit complete. I don't see why income should be a deciding factor, since Singapore's policy has always been "fend your yourself"

Guy from a poor family said...

26/4/11 20:28 Anoy

The man wants to suffer, then let him suffer on his own. Why bring kids into this world to suffer along with him just to satisfy his selfish wants?

You said let him do what he wants since there is no welfare in Singapore. Then may I know what is subsidised healthcare, education, workfare, public assistance, etc if these are not welfare schemes?

Why don't you help fulfill the low income man's basic right by offering him a cleaner job that pays $3k? If you are not prepared to do that, you are just empty talk.

Daily Struggles of a Singaporean Joe said...

My wife is a foreigner and as a University Graduate, my income is less than 3k, my wife application for PR was also rejected despite seeking MP Cedric Foo's help and appeal rejected too. Reasons were not disclosed despite asking ICA for it. It is unfair as I have served NS and continually have to pay alot of money to apply short term pass, long term pass, PR application fee, higher maternity fees and childbirth as my wife is not a PR so when she gave birth last year she had to stay in a non-subsidised ward. It is grossly unfair as a Chinese couple both PRs gets to enjoy cheaper wards! What kind of policies are these? Favouring PRs from other countries and marginalising Singaporeans with foreign spouses. Is this the kind of government we want?

Anonymous said...

Social Engineering...

Nazism is alive and well in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

By the way,

For those Singaporeans who want to tell others under what conditions they can and cannot marry or have children, you may want to take note of the date April 20. You can celebrate Adolph Hitler's birthday.

Anonymous said...

Opposition - the 3 corner trap...

What happens if they sent a few idiots independent to SMCS.

All the opposition parties have avoid three corner fights but there are a few idiots independents surfacing last minute.

Given that all SMCs is contested by an opposition party, it makes no sense for a independent to contest as they stand a good chance of losing the election deposits in a 3 corner fights compared to a candidate belonging to a party.

Which makes people wonder if they are being sent by . . .

Anonymous said...

Let the man suffers on his own? Why drag the kids into this? Selfish reasons?

Are you saying the lower income has no right to procreate? And kids of lower income family are doomed to a life of misery and torture forever? And how are the parents being selfish? Bringing up children requires considerable sacrifices on the part of the parents.

Why do you keep bringing up the argument that unless people are willing to fork out money they don't have any rights defend such "selfish" acts.

By the way, isn't a function of taxable supposed to be a redistribution of income? More can be done for the less fortunate, instead of channelling funds to events like YOG.

Just because you are from a poor family doesn't mean you have to stay that way, education is a great enabler and the gov has done a respectable job in this area, but like I mentioned before...more could be done.

Ah Seng said...

Anon 21:35

You are 100% right!

Anonymous said...

Don't think you can reach consensus through debating. But if you don't fight and divide, and may even sink the nation, life would be boring.

Please give us all a good show. The rests of the neighbors are also enjoying the show.

Anonymous said...

The pap is an EVIL party. Decent Singaporeans will not want to have anything to do with the pap. Least of which is to vote for them. Only evil people will support and join the pap.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5A_3veIJmA&feature=player_embedded

MBT strike again

Anonymous said...

Fight for your future. Fight for mee Siam got hum. Fight to the end. May the last man standing rule the jackpot.
All the best.

Guy from a poor family said...

If you want to adopt a child or a pet, the first criteria the voluntary organisations look at is whether you can afford to provide the child or the pet with their basic needs.

Please go tell these voluntary organisations that they are wrong.

Guy from a poor family said...

No home to call their own
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/My+Money/Story/A1Story20080624-72535.html

REMEMBER Joe, the boy who was caught by police for glue sniffing?
http://www.asiaone.com/News/The%2BNew%2BPaper/Story/A1Story20101123-248800.html

I am sure the kids in the above stories love living in void decks just so they can fulfill their parents' basic wants of having a family.

Anonymous said...

hahahahahaha. I used to have a ang mo colleague asking me this question. Why the system here seems to reward / even help the already able / smartest (e.g the education system). I said well that's the system here.

Guy from a poor family said...

Please go tell the poor hungry homeless kids straight in their faces, that we already know their parents cannot afford to feed them, but we still encouraged their parents to go ahead and have a family because we need to let their parents fulfill their basic wants.

Anonymous said...

I would tell those kids:

Look, life has been unfair to you so far. But so what? Work hard and don't look back because only the future will give you the chance.

You have a whole life ahead of you.

Guy from a poor family said...

If you want to adopt a child or a pet, the first criteria the voluntary organisations look at is whether you can afford to provide the child or the pet with their basic needs.

Please go tell these voluntary organisations that they are wrong.

Anonymous said...

"I can easily make a roadsweaper millionaire by trade union and cartel which limits their numbers to less than 100."

Very good one.

Anonymous said...

"Guy from a poor family said...
I am sure the kids in the above stories love living in void decks just so they can fulfill their parents' basic wants of having a family."

Are you speaking from experience ?

Guy from a poor family said...

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/09/vulnerableyouth/3/index.shtml

Youth from low-income families are vulnerable to poor outcomes as adults, as these youth often lack the resources and opportunities found to lead to better outcomes.

Guy from a poor family said...

http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/Data/Files/File/Research/rb20.pdf

A STUDY OF JUVENILE SHOPLIFTERS

Median Monthly Income of Parents: S$2,000.

Anonymous said...

"A STUDY OF JUVENILE SHOPLIFTERS"

So pay them more from national coffer so that they won't shoplift. So that these youth will have the resources and opportunities to lead to better outcomes.

Similar to pay ministers high so that they will not be corrupt.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/user/154media#p/u/31/cKZbe29hS1A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFh2vpGeoIk

Kenneth Liew said...

didn't this low income Singapore man produces 2x Singaporean boys and has contributed to increase the low birth rate of Singapore? So, who cares about whether he is married to a foreign wife? Should give citizenship to the foreign wife for doing such a good job (give birth to 2 kids). Interesting...

we need poor people said...

All you ingrates that got out of poverty because PAP provided you with education. Now that you have a comfortable life, you are talking about rights, income gap ad all that bullshit.

We really shouldnt let poor people get out of their poverty cycle. Kepp them in it and theya re good obedient dogs who will not dream wild and big.


I say we privatize education and let market forces decide who should be educated. If every asswipe is educated, which poor bastard will be left to be in servititude. you know the colonialist are 2 step ahead of our current flawed system. I say PAP is on track to create poor people to ensure the future of SIngapore. We need poor people.

In my grandpa times, we actually had house servants that sign life deeds to our household. Work for food and lodging only. those were the days

Anonymous said...

I was a security guard myself a few years back. Assigned to a construction site. While i was at the guardhouse doing access control, 3 PRC construction workers came. As per normal, communication breakdown when i started asking for their I/D. So i took other worker's work permit and showed it to them. What happened next nearly *faint* me. All 3 of them flashed their genuine new pink Singapore I/C. You can know they are fresh Singaporean from the I/C no. Walau ... so easy get Singapore citizenship huh?? That's what i encountered ... There could be more out there.

Get back to the topic : In the case of "Mr Damien Koh" after serving his duty to this Nation , NS .. etc.. But NOT even a P/R status given to his wife. Sadly to say : A Nation Without Compassion Will breed Cruel Citizen.

========

@ Guy from a poor family ..
At present, most cleaners earned about $400 - $1000 a month. How does these people lived?? Didn't you notice the public outcry, unhappiness, anger, disgruntle ...etc.. towards our Gahmen ?? 1st World Country with a 3rd World salary.

Miss Q said...

My parents who are blood purists and staunch supporters of the PAP would say the poor deserve nothing from the government.

I agree. Why do we need to support them? No thanks to welfare for the poor, everyone earns less and receives less payouts.

Poor people breed more stupid people. Singapore will fail if we get more stupid people who vote for the opposition.

PAP forever!

Anonymous said...

I can see a lot of comments from the likes of Singapore's Golden Elite Girl: Wee Shu Min, the daughter of PAP outgoing MP Wee whatever-his-name who was praised by Lee Hsien Loong to the sky.

The crux of the matter is this. There is something very wrong with the wage structure in Singapore if a full-time security guard cannot support a modest family. In the past, even cleaners could raise a big family. Then came the time when cleaners could not make enough money to support their families, and people got around to accept that. Now, cleaners can't even support themselves and security guards are regarded that they can't raise a family.

Who is next on PAP's chopping board? I merrily look forward to the day when graduates have problems raising families.

PAP won't give a hoot because they themselves rake in millions by the year.

notanotherspinstory said...

PAP is downright evil to discriminate against the poor with foreign wives.

Three of my brother's-in-law have foreign wives.
They can't even get a PR, not to say citizenship.

Something is seriously wrong here and I hope the opposition take this up.

Anonymous said...

Our famous JBJ questioned this in Parliament. But no use. He was just a lone voice.

You want change, you have to vote for it.

ayu said...

I am APPALLED by those who said let the poor remain poor and PAP should not help them. I mean if you are lucky enough to get born into a better household with working parents who are able to get a decent income, then GOOD FOR YOU. But there are actually people out there who despite trying are unable to do anything to improve their plight because they are too caught up in trying to make that bare minimum wage to provide a meal for their family. Do you think they really have the time to care about upgrading themselves so that they can get better job? Especially when upgrading comes with alot of time needed to attend schools and such. Do you think the poor would rather spend their time studying when they can at least take up another job to earn more money? I don't know what is wrong with some of the people here who insist that the government is doing enough to help or should not help. If you have truly been poor, you would have known how it feels to be helpess and you would be relieved of ANY form of help, no matter how small it is. And if your first world government, who only controls 4 million Singaporeans is unable to help you more, then who will be able to help? And to GUY from a poor family -- Some poor people are lucky enough to have friends and relatives to help out and tide them through hard times, so there are indeed people who are willing to help. So I don't know why do you keep challenging unless someone is ready to help out the poor themselves, otherwise, do not make any noise about asking the government to help more. They do not need to report to you who they have helped before making comments about asking the government to help the poor.

So, to the government, more help must be done to help the poor. So what if Singapore becomes less wealthy just because we are helping out too much to the poor, at least we die with a conscience. We only live once, is there really a need to be so caught up with material possessions and statuses?

Another One From A Poor Family said...

When commenters talk about rights, I wish they will remember the rights of the children.

I came from a poor family where the father insisted on his right to have as many children as he wanted until he had a son - he got his wish via adoption after many daughters - but where was he when his daughters needed to buy their textbook and pay their school fees.

I worked at temp jobs to earn my keep and school fees as a teenager and there, I met an even more extreme case. A teenage colleague of mine had to drop out of school (despite scoring As) because dad is in his 70s (and poor and needed medical treatment), mum is an illiterate in her early 40s who also need medical treatment and brother is serving NS with a couple of hundred dollars. If you look back, this is a case of 50+ low income old man marrying illiterate 20 year old foreign bride via matchmaking and this is how they ended up 10+ years later.

At about the same time, there was a couple of news report. One was about a suddenly widowed foreign woman with 5 children and no Singaporean relatives and no money. Another was about an elderly Changi Airport cleaner who got killed in an accident. What caught my eye was that he had a 12 year old son living with him in a shack off the airport runway. I really wondered about the mentality of the adults who brought such children into the world.

When some commentators talk about the right of the poor to procreate, I've been busy reading the online comments of irresponsible 50-60 year old low income Singaporean men who
1. go to Batam and set up with a poor and ignorant Indonesian woman.
2. shop for virginal teenage brides with matchmaking agencies.

The end result is the same, children and families who struggle to survive, sometimes in Singapore, sometimes outside Singapore, but the odds are not really in their favour.

Anonymous said...

but don't forget.. the backbone of Singapore is the low income.. try asking those expat to work as road cleaner?? even now the laymen job of singapore also being invaded by foreigner.. sorry.. not racist or prejudice.. see.. see the truth out there.. road sweeper, construction worker and even kopi tiam assistant... so Singapore is really for the "haves" haven of the have.. have money??

Anonymous said...

I agree to your post. I am a Singaporean with a Honors and currently pursuing my Masters. My husband is a foreigner with Masters in IT and we have 3 Singaporean children. Until today, my husband is still not granted an LTVP. It is really tearing my family apart because he have to stay out of Singapore every once in a while. I dun have any other source of support to look after my kids. So life has been tough. Plus I need to be the sole bread winner and support my husband + 3 children. This is very very difficult. I dunno why the government cannot give some flexibility on Singaporean who married foreigner. I am soooooo depressed.

Puckout said...

I'm a Singapore citizen earning 3k a month. My wife is Malaysian. We received approval from MOM to get married as she was on a work permit. Her PR application after we got married was rejected.

Unfortunately my wife got retrenched after that, and is only able to come into Singapore on a Social Visit pass. As a Malaysian, she is only allowed to stay in Singapore for 60 days after which she has to leave the country for 30 days.

I went to see my MP and he wrote an appeal on compassionate grounds to ICA to approve the LTVP. I never did receive a reply from ICA. I went to see the MP again and this time, I got to speak to Mr Goh Chok Tong who made a surprise appearance at the Meet The People sessions. He said "If MOM approved your marriage in the first place, then this fact can be used to strengthen your case." Another appeal was written to ICA on the basis of compassionate grounds as well as MOM's approval.

Why approve my marriage if you're just gonna split me up from my wife? What kind of marriage is this? Are you trying to tell me that I've become a 2nd class citizen because my wife is not Singaporean? How can my wife continue looking for a job in this terrible current market if you're gonna keep her out? And you want me to stand up for Singapore? Do you think I will? These are questions that run through my mind everyday.

It seems to me that maybe citizens like myself who are married to non-citizens are just not wanted by the government in the country. Am I wrong?

I don't think I'm wrong because all signs seem to point in that direction. I'm really frustrated and maybe I should just try to find an opportunity to give up my citizenship, withdraw my CPF, and go somewhere else where I can have a healthy marriage.

no_name said...

"No money no talk" seem to be always true in singapore.

Anonymous said...

(If so many man marry foreign spouse, what will happen to singapore women. Aren't Singapore women voters. Should they vote for the PAP?)
I think its a fair question.But Why cant the women think of what they are made of, beside the discrimination of poor man is clear from many ways we should have seen and we have no rights to judge them what they can be capable off and even do better then the bad rich. If this continue, the poor man wont be stupid to make babies in sg and rather choose else where.high flyer... fly high long?Nothing forever..
Injustices and unfair? i dun not believe there is easy justices and fairness... I rather find other ways and not crying for gov assistant.
i am not a high flyer nor a PAP supporter, but i must say PAP proven.U cant find another country like SG.

abdul hameed said...

why the pr family were granted their dependent pass to stay and Singaporean foreign spouse not given? the reason low income!! if the government were so so highly educated tell us... if we were to support and paying bills for our spouse at oversea and at the same time in Singapore also travelling to and fro with unpaid leave or spend extra bowls of rice in Singapore which are cheaper?

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Anonymous said...

I disagreed with your SHALLOW comment. There is a reason WHY low salary cannot get LTVP for his wife. No matter how smart you think you are, you cannot not guard against foreigner wife who are here to seek a fortune using Marriage route.

Many of a time, the true color of foreign wife appear years later as they get more familiar with Singapore. Let me ask you something. If you marry a foreigner wife despite having 1500 salary which eventually she will think it is low, do you think she will find a way out for a better life if SHE HAVE A CHANCE?

ONCE, ONCE she got the PR in her hand, the foreigner wife qualify for WDA sponsorship, polyclinic sponsorship and finally ------> she can ask for divorce and still stay in Singapore.

The minister understands that by not giving the foreigner wife that precious PR, it maybe a way to KEEP THE FOREIGNER WIFE with the low salary man for a longer time or forever.

Are you stupid or play dumb? There are tens of thousands of stories in Singapore about foreigner wife from hell who show their true horns once they get their PR and they divorce the Singapore man and get alimony from them every month.

You must open your heart and accept the very very very hard truth in this world. When you are low income, You really really really need government to think for you to take care of you. You can ask around, how many low salary man upon helping their wife gets PR receive divorce letter after a while?

This world is not as simple as you think. The human heart is full of dirt. How old are you by the way??

When the rich people marry, more likely the poor foreign wife is less likely to leave him because she got a comfortable life.

Brother You live on earth. On earth there are realities which ONE MUST ACCEPT ACCEPT ACCEPT AS HARD TRUTH. You cannot run away one.

You think you can use votes to threaten the government? You are damn wrong. The government give PR if anything wrong is your family broken not his family. haha!

His trying to protect you. Do you know that Millions of woman from other country want to come to Singapore to stay and earn money to send back home?

Their Gene and DNA is not the same with us Singaporean. Our DNA and Chinese genes are pass down from our forefather who come to Singapore half a century ago.

You let too much of these lousy genes from other country come stay in Singapore which they have no economic contribution, our country sooner or later will die.

Trust me, as long as one day the foreigner wife do not get their PR or LTVP+ , they will not dare to leave their Singaporean spouse. Once they divorce, they got bad record here and cannot come anymore.

Before you write one cock long paragraph which seem like very reasonable but all cock one, you need to use your brain to think.

Don't be so stupid lah. You must know HUMAN HEART IS FULL OF DIRT. And woman especially from poorer country will DO ANYTHING THEY CAN, TO ESCAPE PROVERTY AND MAKE USE OF ANY STUPID MAN THEY CAN FIND IN SING.

The LTVP and LTVP + is a stroke of genius being thought out by the Singapore government. WE SHOULD THANKS OUR GOVERNMENT.