Wednesday, January 18, 2012

Ministerial Pay : Why the man on the street is right and PM Lee is wrong.



I put up this video not because I want you to listen to the PM's same old argument that ministerial pay has to be high to attract capable people but to show you the empty seats next to Tin Peh Ling and behind her. Those PAP MPs didn't even bother to appear to listen to their own prime minister. You may take issue with MP Tin's intellect but she has been "on the ball" when it comes to attendance in parliament. The same cannot be said of other PAP MPs who have successful high flying careers and showing up in parliament is a part-time thing for which they are paid close to $200,000 in allowance per year.

One day as I got up a bus, I saw a somewhat familiar face. I couldn't figure out where I had seen the person but I took the seat next to him. He greeted me in Hokkien and started talking to me. It took me a while to recall the man in his late forties was working at a coffeeshop that I go to every Saturday morning. He was very happy because the boss allowed him to go off early that day and he was very chatty. He started talking about his life. He had a kid in secondary school and was looking for a job at a coffeeshop nearer to his home in order to save some transport cost - his pay was $1000 so every dollar had to be squeezed. He asked me what I worked as. My Hokkien was really rusty and all I could manage was to tell him was I worked with computers. He got really excited and said he heard that computer work paid very well - "$2000 a month!". I told him, "yes, a person can get $2000 working with computers". He had that "wow" look on his face - $2000 is a lot of money for someone paid $1000. At the back of my head, I was thinking how awkward it would be for me to tell him how much I was actually paid and didn't have the Hokkien vocabulary to explain why I have to paid that amount...then again even if I could speak in fluent Hokkien, it is hard explain and justify why I have to be paid a particular multiple of his salary. You think about it ....this guy turns up for work everyday works from dawn until almost mid-night and our MPs don't even show up at the most important parliament debate to give their 2 cents worth get paid 20 times what the guy at the coffeeshop gets - some of us would rather have that cup of coffee than some PAP MP supporting policies we do not want. The Straits Times published an article saying some 2nd tier  executives are now paid $1M a year so we cannot expect to cut ministerial pay too much....so that is how much "wisdom" in the boardroom is valued at these days.  PM Lee says they need to pay what looks like a hell lot of money to the "man on the street" to get capable people. 

After so much debate, the PAP govt still cannot get people to see their point of view. They still cannot get people to accept their arguments. But why should the people accept something they see as unjust and incorrect?

 "But my bigger concern is for the long term; for future Cabinets and potential office holders, people who have not yet come in, people who must make that decision and that commitment." - Lee Hsen Loong

I listened to all the PAP MPs arguments that their concern is for the country and that good salary is necessary to find good capable people. But all these arguments misses the central key issue in our society - that of high income inequality. You cannot justify such high salaries pegged to the highest income earners at a time when income gap is so large. Yes there a practical issues for the PAP because they cannot find dedicated people unless they pay out these skyhigh salaries. It also has an ideology unattractive to many capable people who don't anything to do with the PAP. But that is a problem the PAP created for itself by allowing the income gap to grow and the wages of a large segment of the populace to stagnate and fall. There is now growing evidence that influx foreign workers which the PAP euphemistically explains are here  to create jobs for Singaporeans has suppress the wages of many Singaporeams. The whole system needs remaking[Singapore Inc needs rethinking] and the inability of the PAP govt to set ministerial salaries at a level acceptable to the man on the street merely reflects urgent need for change in this country.

We shouldn't accept the principles laid out for ministerial pay when the issue of excessive executive compensation and low worker wages remain unresolved. These high ministerial salaries are linked to bigger problems in our society and the more the PAP MPs argue with passion in support of their own compensation, the less we feel they are able to solve the real problems faced by Singaporeans. We never hear them stand up to talk with the same passion about better compensation for workers - minimum wages, better work benefits, greater worker protection.

82 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Wealth Gap - Inequality in Numbers
By Michael Robinson
BBC World Service

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16545898

Now what does that tell you when you try to peg your salary to the top 1000 income earners.

Anonymous said...

If only they were as passionate about improving the lot for Singaporeans (or at least maintaining it), we would not have to go through this embarassing discourse of puffed up egos, mis-directed priorities and exposé on what is closest to their hearts.

The use of main stream media to defend / parrot a one-sided view has further eroded the credibility of an all important tool in shaping the nation.

Anonymous said...

ignore him & them... they had their moment in history.

Let them continue to rob & plunder.. There are laws here that can put them away for a long time.

If that fails, the scenes from black hawk down is as human as it gets. Anger is not easily subdued.
Allow them the opportunity to experience this.

Thank you for sharng your views.. appreciate it

Anonymous said...

Let the PAP continue to rob & plunder... There will be a point when the citizens will feel enough is enough. When that happens, PAP will soon be a history in Singapore politics

Anonymous said...

"We shouldn't accept the principles laid out for ministerial pay when the issue of excessive executive compensation and low worker wages remain unresolved."
Lucky Tan

You mean you can decide and take action on "should or should not" when 60% who voted PAP are already indirectly endorsing it, among other things?

Anonymous said...

To be fair to our deaf frogs, they do speak with same great amount of passion about better compensation for employers plus cheaper, better and faster workers for our employers and lesser worker protection plus importing of more FTs. :(

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter who is right or wrong, as long as 60% think it is right to have PAP as govt, then ultimately it is right.

It's that straightforward. And any political party which wants to rule Singapore must, first and foremost, think of how to get this right. For them, that is.

All other arguments and debates are secondary.

Anonymous said...

Not say right lah, but it is less wrong to vote for PAP.

Anonymous said...

"A good government is only as good as the people that comprise it, she added.

'In the heat of this debate, I hope that we do not lose sight of this human angle - that we are talking about individuals who have decided to come forward to serve and to put the interest of the people above their own, sometimes at a cost to themselves.

'My fear is that if we turn this debate into a mechanical discussion about dollars and cents, it will become much harder for us to attract good people as office-bearers. For who would want to hold office only to have their motives and intentions questioned all the time, when they are putting their heart and soul into the work that they do purely because of the convictions that they hold.'"

She is right. But still, you willingly and deliberately put your hand in the money jar to take as much as you can. Shouldn't people also have the right to call you monkeys?

Your boss shallow thinking brought it on the whole team.

Anonymous said...

Have they ever think that the reasons for their poor recruitment is because candidates do not agree with their manifesto, their policies? After all the high pay, we still get clowns who gave you stupid excuses for policies screwups, dumbing the electorade down. Was there ever any 2 way communication process?

Anonymous said...

"You may take issue with MP Tin's intellect but she has been "on the ball" when it comes attendance in parliament."
Lucky Tan

I think MP Tin is the only full time PAP MP. Considering this, being "on the ball" is no big deal lah. But the monthly MP allowance, if I were her, definitely a big deal.

Anonymous said...

If we can agree that the core role of government is to raise the livelihoods of the people, then the ministerial pay should be pegged to the median income so that it will rise and fall in tandem with the median income.

It should be about 15 to 25 times the median income (those who demand more than 25 times are not suitable to be a minister). This would be about $720,000 to $1.2 million annually. It is simple, easy to understand and transparent.

The new ministers’ pay of $1.1 million to $1.76 million (grade MR4 to MR1) is about 23 to 37 times the median income and is too high. It is about 53% higher if we compare the entry pay of $720,000 and $1.1million (1,100,000/720,000 = 152.8%).

Anonymous said...

PAP 四面楚歌!

Anonymous said...

I like Mr. Chen Show Mao's argument that political service should viewed as “primarily a privilege, not a burden or sacrifice”.

Anonymous said...

I like Mr. Chen Show Mao's argument that political service should viewed as “primarily a privilege, not a burden or sacrifice”.
Anon 18/1/12 09:54

But Chen Show Mao as MP, only 6 of his kind.

As a person of his calibre, maybe the only 1 of his kind.

So on numbers alone, definitely lose out big time to PAP, despite how good or well liked his arguments.

Anthony said...

Very well said, I love the last paragraph. (clap clap)

Anonymous said...

Data and effects of income inequality. Singapore is mentioned at least 3 times!!


http://blog.ted.com/2011/10/24/how-economic-inequality-harms-societies-richard-wilkinson-on-ted-com/

Anonymous said...

Roman emperor and senators justifying their high falutin salary and lifestyle.

Anonymous said...

Mercenary

Adjective:
(of a person or their behavior) Primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.

Noun:
A professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army.

Synonyms:
adjective. venal

noun. hireling - soldier of fortune

SOURCE:
http://www.google.com.sg/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=definition+of+mercenary&psj=1&oq=definition+of+mercenary&aq=0&aqi=g2g-v4g-j3&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=1340l12329l0l15695l23l23l0l2l2l6l323l3801l3.9.8.1l21l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ae12cf7e37ed822c&biw=1280&bih=570

Anonymous said...

I heard our good PM over tv and I am sure he has good intentions, it seems to be a difficult issue for him. But I wonder wther this issue of ministers not getting enough pay is a common problem across Asia or only peculiar to Sg? Say in KL, Bangkok the costs of public health care are almost free, in HK social welfare pay sgd 600, the elderly are accorded the dignity to live alone by themselves in public housing, their people do not have to do NS while hungry aliens pull a headstart on them, the Hkers are protected with minumum wage benefits.. the list of common sense bread and butter issues goes on. In Taipei, Seoul, Tokyo ministers' wage problems are unheard of. Are we the peculiar ones instead? I think we may have been thinking too much.. have been employing too many left brained boffins that are costing us the arms and legs. You dun need nuclear physicists, scientists or AStar types to run the country.. we used to have postman, unionists and ordinary folks doing the exact jobs. We did extremely well when we just relied on our common sense.. like everyone around us are doing today. We went from third world to first without the book worms, we were very happy then.

Anonymous said...

What do you call a dinner guest, who has already eaten all your good food.
Whom you know is already full.
And yet continues to demand for more food.

What do you call such a person?

Anonymous said...

Lucky, I be honest with you that I used to be a very strong pap supporter until I notice the changes to our country in especially after mid 1990 and getting worst since then. I bought into wp argument. It's not just the amount that they get paid but is is the flawed principles and philosophy. And the methodology used.

Anyway it has been decided and accepted so nothing much can be done till 2016.

Anonymous said...

I like the last sentence. Yes PAP is only self-interested and has no interest in the welfare of the ordinary Singaporeans. Vote them out comes next GE2016!

Anonymous said...

"Are we the peculiar ones instead?"
Anon 18/1/12 11:16

Yes. Peculiar because:

1. 60% think, despite PAP changed from good to not so good or even bad over the decades, but seriously speaking, is still the best available.

2. The opposition hasn't changed much for the better over the decades. And it is precisely because of this that's why there is the 60%.

So the root of the problem is actually we don't have a opposition which is considered better than the PAP by majority voters.

And if the opposition doesn't change for the better, GE 2016 will not be much different from GE 2011.

Anonymous said...

Has the boss considered the foreigners option to bring down his costs while bringing in cheap and good talents? There are millions of bright young and able candidates from India and China that can fill up the less sensitive portfolios.

Anonymous said...

These assholes are still stuck in their old record replaying over and over again.
It is so clear that the pap is INCAPABLE of CHANGE. First is whether they have the intention. Second is whether they have the ability as the problem LKY crafted is so complex and deep-rooted. Last but not least is whether they have the will to pull it thru. Looking at the empty seats it is clear that Singaporeans must pushed for FULL-TIME mps.

Anonymous said...

Strangely some of these so called talents that are in the cabinet are:
- Relatives
- Minister's secretary spouse/ children

Maybe we must be related or know someone from lee clan to meet the minimum requirement of being a talent.

Anonymous said...

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few"

A wartime speech by Winston Churchill in praise of the Royal Air Force after victory in the Battle of Britain.
SOURCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_was_so_much_owed_by_so_many_to_so_few

SINGAPORE VERSION
------------------
"Never was so much given to so few for doing so little."

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans gave the mandate to the leaders to pay themselves.
Now, what is the problem?
'The man on the street', are they not Singaporeans? Why are they right?

Anonymous said...

Paradoxically, these antics by the PAP serve to increase the discontent among Singaporeans and hence help bolster the motivation to join the opposition. Hence, we are seeing people like CSM coming forward as a viable alternative to PAP. If it wasn't for PAP's self-serving cronyism, this would had occurred at a much slower pace. At least something positive is coming out of all this PAP bullsh*t -- a catalyst for political change.

Anonymous said...

No need to give TinPL credit for 'being on the ball' for attendance.She has no other jobs.After showing the world what a nitwit she is, she has to at least have 101% attendance before she gets slammed again.How much they cut from the political salary, the pay is still a huge bonus to her compared to her previous salary.Plus the 'status of her new job' is tremendous compared to her old job.Sitting there in parliament, she can feel VIPP !! So how can don't attend parliamentary sittings. The more sittings there are , the better for her - sure she loves it !

Anonymous said...

The more mentions of Tin Peiling and the young generals, the more one gets to see them in the Official Medias.
The more Bloggers talked about pink(color), the more pink Singaporeans will get to see on tv and in real life. These are to spite You sinkies thru and thru. Dont believe? Watch it yrself.

Fred said...

Dear Lucky Tan, thanks for your blog I came across it today and have bookmarked it. At about the 1:08:30 point PM Lee referred to the "difficult issue" of pay increases - it is only difficult because the Singaporean community is being conned. Singaporean parliamentarians must be the highest paid on planet Earth. Do you think you are getting such good value from their 'passionate work'? PM of Australia Julia Gillard who is paid more than the President of the United States got a pre-Christmas increase to AUD$470,000 per annum. It's outrageous and a con to say to the Singaporean community that parliamentarian salaries need to compete to the very highest of international private enterprise. All this talk about money - what about the quality of life in Singapore for the common man and woman.

Anonymous said...

To be honest, I didn't really care about how high their salary. When you compared ministerial pay to top CEO of MNCs, it's really little.

Lucky, you are right about the income inequality.

Why ministerial salary review:

I earn very little, what the, the ministers pay so high arh?

Oi,y your pay so high never do a good job.

Anonymous said...

If we give workers greate protection, then we may not be so attractive to foreign bosses and managers, especially from India, Phillipines and China. And to some extent, even Caucasians.

Don't they all love to fire Singaporeans from their jobs and replace them with mainly their own countrymen?

All our ministers did was to plead with them from the front covers of the ST to not discriminate against citizens.

How pathetic we are!

Anonymous said...

For those keep on using 60% like 18/1/12 08:50 in Lucky Tan blog, please lah! Your boss LHL ask you to engage other people, not speaking rubbish. Your colleague assigned to other blog are doing better job than you.

Gouki said...

To be fair, the seats BEHIND Tin Pei Ling are meant to be kept empty. We can't really see if the seat on her left is empty, but yes, the empty seat to her right shows that the MP assigned that seat (Ong Teng Koon) was absent.

(See this seating plan from Parliament's website: http://www.parliament.gov.sg/chamber-seating-plan)

Anonymous said...

A classroon teacher is paid $3000 plus a month and PM Lee is paid
$210 000 plus a month.

PM Lee monthly salary is equivalent to paying 70 teachers salary.

I don't think PM Lee has the brainpower of 70 teachers.

Anonymous said...

The only reason why 60.1% voted for these unceremonious policies that lack an appreciation of basic human right to a secure life and health is probably because of PAP's Fan Club voters.

These PAP fans are voting blindly.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lucky,

The new ministerial salaries seek to pay 7 months bonus for ministers who meet expectations in their job.

This is unfair as the rule in Civil Service is that a civil servant gets $0 (zero dollars) for meeting expectation.

Why the double standards?

Anonymous said...

Once again, LHL has missed the golden chance to convince Singaporeans that his PAP has really turned over a new leaf.

Next GE, even if he kneel down and cry, nobody will believe him. He better start looking for a new trick.

Anonymous said...

@ ANON: 18/1/12 20:21
"He better start looking for a new trick."

You've just identified the elephant in the room.

Party Against People is morally & politically bankrupt.
Living on credit of historical goodwill.
With no vision of a noble future for us other than cheaper, better, faster.
And million dollar salaries for themselves.

Anonymous said...

Kee Chiu said money is not the issue but his boss said money is an issue(so who is the devil here?). If you do a survey, most will probably put their thumbs up for kee chiu - that is if he actually meant what he said. And generally, people will frown upon money faced leaders.

So have the dragon king recruited mostly money face leaders because if they are indeed self serving, society will reflect their self serving ways or behaviour and policies will continue to ensure their kind takes the biggest bite of the cake leaving crumbs for the dogs to fight over.

Maybe leaders who feel that money is not an issue(Kee Chiu) should forgo more than half their pay - to charity perhaps - and show us that they can live comfortably at middle incomers salary.

After all, aren't leaders suppose to serve the vast number in that pay bracket? If the vast majority can get by with middle income pay, why can't they ....and be happy with it?

National leaders, if you have the means to live like the rich and famous but choose to live like most ordinary folks you serve - moderately - it will make you a more believable, less hypocritical and an approachable leader.

Do you believe that the middle class life is a good life? Do you believe that if we all aspire to live in moderation, society will be healthier and more equitable?

If you do, why don't you come down from your loftiness and live among the "good life" you have created? Unless the "good life" is not what it was made out to be hence you pay lip service to the people you serve by exaggerating your wisdom and abilities to justify astronomical pay to buy the "good life" at...our expense?

Anonymous said...

You think they believe in the middle class? They are here to RIDE ON THE RESTS and live like kings and queens.

Joke, the old man is still perpetuating a dependency mentality(you will all die or your women will by maids without the elites) when the world has changed and the people are now better educated to judge for themselves.

But if Sinkies are daft to listen to a leader of a bygone era and have their potentials be undermined and suppressed, then they deserve to get what's coming to them.

Anonymous said...

Singapore Citizens have to pay taxpayer money every year so that there is enough money for the PAP to be paid multi-million dollars salaries and bonus to deliver "Singapore Dividends" to Singapore Citizens in the form of negative impacts from mass influx of foreigners to Singapore when PAP open the floodgate to foreigners.

The mass influx of foreigners has lead to replacement of Singapore Citizens in the job market and depressing of Singapore Citizens salaries. These explain why Singapore Citizens unemployment rates is the highest, more than the residents and overall unemployment rates. Not capturing in the Singapore Citizens unemployment rates is the under-employment of PMETs and long term unemployment of Singapore Citizens who are jobless longer than 6 months. Further, due to the large number of foreigners working and chasing after limited number of jobs in Singapore, median salaries of Singapore Citizens have remain unchanged, still and depressed.

Large influx of foreigners have also lead to overcrowding of MRT and buses, overcrowding in hospitals, intense competition for limited places in primary schools, secondary schools, junior college, polytechnic and universities.

More permanent residents who are actually foreigners are buying out more HDB flats and private properties, causing the prices of HDB flats and private properties to rise to sky high levels, thereby depriving Singapore Citizens the affordability to pay for a simple roof to live.

So, Singapore Citizens receive large amount of "Singapore Dividends" from highly paid PAP in the form of large amount of negative impacts from mass influx of foreigners.

Anonymous said...

http://feedmetothefish.blogspot.com/2012/01/another-day-of-mourning-in-parliament.html

good to read also.

Anonymous said...

Our beloved former MM and now special MP has come out to defend his logic of politicians' pay formula. His logic of politicians’ remuneration:

You propose a formula for your own salary and present the proposal to the parliament for approval. You and your cronies have total control of the parliament. You know your proposal is definitely passed without meaningful debate.

You propose salary formula for you and your cronies to base on a group of top earners who are mostly from GLCs and your cronies' companies. You also know that your controlled parliament will pass your proposed formula. Next thing you do is to get GLCs and your cronies' companies to pay the chief very very well. As such, your and your cronies' salary will be increased accordingly.

After the people object to your proposal, you appoint one of your cronies to review the proposal and he recommend a revised proposal that you and your cronies (not the people) are happy about it. Then you present the revised proposal to the parliament again for approval. You know that all your cronies in the parliament will support the revised proposal because the revised proposal is for their own good. The parliament is still dominant by your cronies and the revised proposal will be approved without any question. 


After the revised salary proposal is done, one of your cronies can say she suffer pay cut by joining politics. She claimed she could earn much more in 'private' sector. Look at what 'private' sector she has worked before joining politics. She has worked for few GLCs before invited to join politics. Are GLCs really 'private' sector? If she is right, those GLCs must have paid her very very high salary. This proves that if you have raised the GLCs chief salary this will actually effect higher salary for you and your cronies.

Anonymous said...

What passion? They wasted parliament meeting discussing about pay cuts which would only "affect"... at most... 81 persons' lives. Shouldn't they be discussing on income gap issues and how to help the less fortunate Singaporeans? This is definitely self-serving... At its epitome.

Anonymous said...

I still don't get it. Why is the PAP reaching into the Singapore cookie jar to fund the renewal and deepening of its bench strength? The arguments put up by the PAP MPs and political appointees already assume that it is a shoo in to form the next government and the PAP/Singapore line is again blurred.

Amused said...

If PAP is so confident that they have the people's support for their salaries, they should put it in a referendum!

(Take note: The 60% "mandate" comments have no clue what they are talking about.)

Anonymous said...

imagine..there are no condos and landed…just nice HDBs…you think the minister will come out telling us that condos dwellers made a huge killing in the market are driving up COV and making HDBs more and more unaffordable?

are you that stupid?

Anonymous said...

Our leaders want to live landed and own several condos for children,grand children and grea great grandchildren that's why pay must high high mah. All lesser mortals think is good idea tal lun chio must be paid high high because their lun chio 10 inches longer than all of us mah

Even oppositions lun chio also long long

Anonymous said...

The incumbent has 93% seats in the house - which is more than 2/3 of the majority needed to pass a bill.

They don't even need to debate this matter. Because Singaporeans gave them the mandate of more than 2/3 majority to do whatever they want with our income taxes.

That's how smart the HDB-myopic Singaporeans are. They'd give a bunch of millionaire ministers millions in pay just so they could hold on to their 99-year rented flats.

So, you may speak of change. We, on the other hand, speak of being realistic.

When you have 60.1% of Singaporeans choosing to give the incumbent UNQUESTIONABLE more than 2/3 majority in seats, you don't have a voice. You have hot air blowing.

You can't change the Singaporean animal overnight as they are divided and have been so for many years. This is why, even if huge influxes of foreign immigration, the Singaporean still say this is OK. They'd tolerate the shit.

You got to be realistic. Most Singaporeans do not have a degrees. Only 30% of Singaporeans have one. The rest don't have much of a critical thinking to begin with. They merely follow blindly and do not have an independent mind.

Smart people work overseas and never return. If your only reason to stay in Singapore is to serve NS and eat your char kuey teow; then do not regret it big time in your old age.

Old age in Singapore is going to be a tragedy. And we can see it already with the old folks in our midst.

Many a times, intelligent netizens have put it out there that there is nothing great in having a Singapore citizenship and the fact is...it is so. Just look at your leaders, they have spent time to accord upon themselves a huge million slices from the people's money and income tax and the people say it is OK.

The cost of living is spriraling because the people made it so.

How many Singaporeans have banged their doors at their MPs when they come for house visits?

There is a dumbing down of the nation which is going on in the mainstream media. And Singaporeans are only beginning to be aware of this only during the last GE 2011. Having said that, there are still many Singaporeans who are 50 and above, who says subjugating the Singaporeans' rights is OK.

The fundamentals in which Singapore was built has shook. And it has shakened badly. You have a Tin Pei Ling in parliament. Singaporeans today are also less giving, polite and caring to fellow Singaporeans.

THere are too mnay dumb masses to work on. The best option is migration. Singapore has nothing. I pray SIngaporeans will speak up and stop being stupid and pretend a lot in front of their leaders.

Why would any reasonably intelligent people set their roots on such barren land?

A lot about Singapore is make-up and pumped-up marketing.

Plan for your retirement, otherwise the minister will plan one for you in JB.

Cheers and good luck.

Anonymous said...

Good rant and mostly valid. You have a structural problem that's why the ancient wise came and took down the structure.

Anonymous said...

seriously...if an eye doctor can make a decision over national flood problem...a $2000 pm engineer can do a far more better job I am sure

but the 2k engineer don't have a slick tongue.

the snake tongue worth a lot of money apparently.

Kojakbt said...

Published on TRE :)

http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/01/19/ministerial-pay-why-the-man-on-the-street-is-right-and-pm-lee-is-wrong/

Anonymous said...

The difference between Lucky Tan and many other intelligent Singaporeans is that they are planning to migrate while Lucky Tan is busy doing I don't know what.

I agree with the above anony that old age will be a tragedy in Singapore as the there is nothing there when you fall in. Singapore runs like America. They need induarance. Singapore's medisave is just bullshit buffer.

Civil servants themselves today DO NOT GET ANY MEDICAL BENEFIT UNDER THE MSO scheme.

If a civil servant fell ill like my sisters, they don't get a single dime. It has to be from their pocket. My sister had cancer and when she asked for medical benefit, the civil service had none as they have or are presently phasing out medical benefits. Now, she is paying out of her own pocket...and we have to help her.

If civil servants can't even survive old age without any medical benefit from the government, why are people still voting for such a bad deal?

Are you saying everyone will be healthy?

It is a known fact that when things go wrong in Singapore, they can really go wrong.

Don't Singaporeans know what it is better to die than to fall sick in Singapore?

How are you going to pay for your medical fees as a civil servant when you don't have medisave 'cos you're hospitalised when you're sick and you're not earning medisave? Or when your medisave is wiped out at one shot as the fees are expensive?

Why is going wrong in Singapore is clear? We all know it. So pack the bags and quit complaining. The fuckers are not going to change. And you're just like them if you yourself are stubborn to get yourself out. You are staying because it hasn't hit you yet. Things are apparently OK on the surface.

It's your complacency and excuses is the reason why you stay.

Singapore is not home. THe universe is your home.

Anonymous said...

Have anyone thought that the 60.1% could have made up 10% who are neutral, 10% who fear (who don't understand that voting is secret) and 40% of those who benefited from the PAP system or from the older generation, thus maybe many Singaporeans do not really support the PAP policies.

With the increasing dissatisfaction shown by the netizens, the opposition has actually won. But due to GRC system, we are being rode over without much choice, with the opposition losing marginally.

We need people with passion & integrity, who really care for fellow Singaporeans & our next generation, who will speak up for justice...For example, when Lehman Bros collapsed, did any MPs or Ministers stepped out to help those Uncles/Aunties like the HK Donald Tsang? Only Mr Tan Kin Lian stepped out, unfortunately, he lost the presidential election. maybe he should try to run as an MP in 2016.

We have one PAP who really speak up now, but only for her self-interest (Grace Fu)...lamenting on the decrease of her "remunerations'& how her work affects her life.
But Ms Fu, do you know all S'poreans work very hard & some really very very hard but still can't make ends meet.

Is Mr Tsang paid less than Ms Fu? Is he less capable?

Can we or do we see the spirit of our beloved Mr Goh Keng Swee, Mr Ong Teng Cheng, Mr Wee Kim Wee... etc in our new leaders?

Anonymous said...

pap politicians are as greedy as ever. nothing has changed. it is still the same boat with some more camouflage to hide their evil deeds.

Anonymous said...

What really saddens me is all of a sudden we see so many politicians come out to argue passionately defending their million dollar salaries, whence the subject of minimum wage level is being debated those few who are interested argued so vigorously against it. This is the true nature of people we elected to lead us. I fear we have made a very serious mistake.

Anonymous said...

The burning question I have is: High pay to attract capable candidate to any political party or to PAP? If we are under opposition ruling, and PAP become minority, will this high salary bench mark apply?

Anonymous said...

it is regretable but this is the true facts we are seeing and experiencing...to me...the papies are as based on the re-qoute below...

"Great minds discuss ideas,
mediocre minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people".

A lot of mediocre PAP MPs i see we have here in parliament. Leaders no...leechers of other people's blood money yes.

Disappointing.

below 40 yrs old said...

40 yrs old and such a simpleton. no wonder he is paid a slave wage. If you want to be paid a good amount, you got to show you are worth the money (at least to the guy or woman that is paying you).

i was paid 4k/mth in my first job out of graduation, rising to 6.5k in 6 mths, change an employer after 1 year and i was taking in 15k/mth, 4 years and 2 more employers later, my fixed package is 400k/yr with varibale at a range of 1.5m-2m.

of course i work for a real global powerhouse unlike your underperforming GLC.

Anonymous said...

perhaps the question is where the PAP is sourcing its candidates from. The root of the cause is how they are pitching the political path.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the question to ponder over is where PAP is sourcing its candidates from. It's how are they pitching the political career option to them - using money or using desire to serve.

Ng Eng Hou said...

Money is important, but if you keep emphasizing on it, this will just 'monetize' or 'commercialize' politics. In the end, the system may ends up attracting the wrong group of people to serve the country at the expense of national interests.

People who enter politics, should think carefully what they're going in for. If they feel entering politics is a sacrifice, in the long run this will be like a chore to them. They will feel that the need to take care of people's or country's affairs is a real burden to them. As a result, they will not do their job well. This is actually what we have been experiencing all these recent years.

Do You Think So?

Vincent said...

TPL is a FULL TIME MP.

If she is not turning up for parliament then do what? Shop for Kate Spade?

Anonymous said...

Not too long ago a 88-year MP cum Minister was paid more than S$3M salary, just wondering how many coffins does he intend to buy when his final day comes?

That is not greedy meh?

Anonymous said...

Weak argument. Watch PM's speech in its entirety again and you might find your questions answered. I'm no PAP slog but the logic and rationale provided by PM in the clip you posted above is a balanced one to explain why the pay review outcomes was the most ideal scenario.

Anonymous said...

"We never hear them stand up to talk with the same passion about better compensation for workers - minimum wages, better work benefits, greater worker protection". Well said. Unfortunately the 60% have been throughly brainwashed to beleive that their condition in life can never improve beyond what PAP has set out for them. So they are grateful. I have given up explaining to these 60% friends about the better work benefits that I ahve personally received when I was working in western countries. They responded as if I was talking about workign on Mars. The problem with many of these 60% is that they are brainwashed to beleive that PAP are demigods and whatever they say is correct. Obey and never question they are excellent product of the culture.

Anonymous said...

"Weak argument. Watch PM's speech in its entirety again and you might find your questions answered."

sound good arguement and sound like PAP.

But look at MahBT and others performance......

We are talking about paying too much money and not getting a good results.

Not paying $$$ to get someone who has good A and degree results.

If they delivered, we do not have much arguement today.

Look at Kee Chiu Sing, we put a clever frog inside the well for 20 years. After 20 years, he think that the sky is just a round shape.

Why million dollars still cannot get talent. Because PAP make itself stink like shit, it only attract houseflies.

Anonymous said...

Eugene Tan kept emphasizing high pay should not be an issue, but the passion and heart our ministers must have. He obviosuly didn't get LKY's message that passion is just high-falutin. When that is said, all their hearts and soul no longer exist in PAP camp. So back to discussing high pay with no moral standing and we must not let them get away easily especially when they screwed up Singaporeans life.

Anonymous said...

I am afraid what we have here is a real monster...

It is interesting to note LKY states no freebies and no welfare...

The problem here is the old man sill refuses to see the current generation of PAP leaders are demanding freebies at whatever cost for their "sacrifices" and "welfare" at the expense of the people of singapore....the majority of the population of singapore is paying for the "few"...and the "few" keep screaming "money not enough" to the old man and his son LHL...

I won't want to be in LHL shoes when the other leaf drops/the old man is gone...i think LHL is gonna be ripped apart by his "own" people...

They don't understand at all...when you need to buy people to be loyal to you...they don't stay bought...to maintain their "loyalty" you must keep giving more and more...it just doesn't make any logical or rational common sense...

Instead of getting people with integrity 1st, than other capabilities...you buy the person 1st...and people like this don't stay "bought"...look at many past factual precedents of what happen to those who think "buying" loyalty will last the distance...it never did...

The saddest point of this...is the people of singapore and many youngsters / older folks pay the price ultimately...while those who caused this "gets away".

Too bad.

And not my problem...i am just an observer...i won't fight for people who can't even fight for themselves.

Sad to see this.

Anonymous said...

Whatever it is, don't make 60% angry and unhappy.

Kin said...

He said ministers hav to be paid highly cos they r creme de la creme crap. If they r so good themselves, why sg is in such a state & ppl like us r still so upset? Obviously, they r there for themselves. We r just means to their ends. Sg has always been theirs. Tat's probably wat democracy meant to them. Mass migration, anyone?

Anonymous said...

Smart and intelligent have left so we need millions dollars to stop these people leaving and to be willing to 'serve' the people. This is a fact that for last 10 years there are 1,000 Singaporeans renounced their citizenship each year so totally 10,000 for last 10 years. Do not forget many times more are actually living overseas and take a wait and see view. So, it is quite reasonable to say that 50,000 have gone in last 10 years. How about before last 10 years? LKY has sounded the emigration issue many decades ago. LKY won't talk about it if the emigration issue is serious. So, you can imagine actually there may be hundreds of thousand Singaporeans have opt to leave for better life overseas. And, it is worst that those can make it to emigrate are those able to emigrate. Ask yourself if you are qualified to emigrate and being accepted by other advanced countries? You know very well yourself. If you don't, you are definitely not qualified to emigrate in the first place. That is why we need millions dollars politicians.

Anonymous said...

Smart and intelligent have left so we need millions dollars to stop these people leaving and to be willing to 'serve' the people. This is a fact that for last 10 years there are 1,000 Singaporeans renounced their citizenship each year so totally 10,000 for last 10 years. Do not forget many times more are actually living overseas and take a wait and see view. So, it is quite reasonable to say that 50,000 have gone in last 10 years. How about before last 10 years? LKY has sounded the emigration issue many decades ago. LKY won't talk about it if the emigration issue is NOT serious. So, you can imagine actually there may be hundreds of thousand Singaporeans have opt to leave for better life overseas. And, it is worst that those can make it to emigrate are those able to emigrate. Ask yourself if you are qualified to emigrate and being accepted by other advanced countries? You know very well yourself. If you don't, you are definitely not qualified to emigrate in the first place. That is why we need millions dollars politicians.

Anonymous said...

Do you remember what PM Goh said during the Minibonds issues which affected lots more people? Move on. And look at the hullabaloo they make over their own pay cut. Grace Fu is right. We need right renumeration. 2 words. SHUT UP. I prefer a deeper pay cut.

Anonymous said...

Wonder What Happens When The Party Goes below the 50% Mark since so much resentment?
Can the Opposing Party Stand up strong and make sure We have strong growth and future for all Singaporeans?
Is Singaporeans Going to be so Happy that we start Opening Champagne?
Hmmmm If i'm from a Opposing Country who wants to profit from this. I Guess i would be the person opening the champagne and laughing to the Bank as profiteering from a small but strong country. That has weakened by its own people.....

nighthawk said...

Listen to the PAP in Parliament talking about why they need big "money" to fire them shows what passion they have. The PAP should change their lightjng symbol to the dollar sign. Its more suitable. The insipid Channel News Debate that followed was a big con. His Masters Voice as usal.
They even had an ang mo consultant on the panel who said that the PAP was not paid enough for the wonderful job they are doing. Everybody on this joke of a prog, was so polite and careful perhaps because they felt that the old man, the brains behind the pay rise may be watching. The conclusion,the people are not so unhappy. Yea right, a speaker of parliament get $500,000 plus his MP fees for doing xxxxxxxx
We were ever asked. They made their own rules, patted themselves on their backs and raised their own pay and they say we are ok with it. Lest see at the next election how ok we are?

Anonymous said...

I can understand why the government say the "clean wage" of the minister and PM are $1.1 and $2.2m respectively. I am not surprise our newspapers say the same. However, the truth is that their salaries are $1.3 and $2.4m respectively as they will also receive their $200k MP allowance as well. They will argue that it is an allowance; not salary. The fact is, you cannot be a minister if you are not a MP (ask Mr George Yeo) and hence, the so-call "clean wage" must include this amount. Furthermore, how many ministers have the time to do their MP work diligently? Isn't a large part of thier MP work undertaken by the supporting cast of MP in their respective GRCs?

The Pariah said...

Well, Lucky, you've got your answer from PM Lee's interview comments during the World Economic Forum in Davos in Jan 2012:

"If you're poor in Singapore, it's no fun, but I think you're less badly off than in any other country in the world, ...".

It all adds up, man.