Thursday, January 31, 2013

Population White Paper :Inventing reasons to sell a plan bad for ordinary S'poreans..

- Straits Times,27 Nov 1960.

There was a time when govt felt that the small island we were in was too crowded with 1.6M people. So they went on to tell the people that the living standards will fall due to overcrowding and higher living density, their path to happiness and healthy family was to keep the population small by having fewer babies. The PAP minister at that time cited problems of strains in housing, hospitals,  transport and the inability to create jobs for the people.

Of course what turned out in the subsequent decades proved this piece of social engineering misguided. The Singapore economy boomed and rose as one of the Asian Tigers chalking up breath-taking double digit growth year after year in a one-off transformation. Not only did Singapore acquire the resources to accommodate a larger population, it ended up facing a labor force bottle neck due to its population control policy and ended up importing  foreigners primarily from Malaysia to fill the gap.

How and why did this mistake occur? The govt based its population plan on what happened it the past with the economy. Despite selling us the notion  that they were men with foresight, great planning and helicopter views that steered the Singapore economy from the 3rd world to the 1st in one generation, they were riding on a wave they themselves did not foresee and based their population planning on the anemic economic performance of the past. You see you can always make the conclusions you want depending on the assumptions you chose to make.

Today they tell that there are blue skies ahead, the global demand will keep rising and Singapore economy can keep expanding to fill the demand. So they propose an extreme population growth policy based primarily on importing foreigners and converting some of them to citizens and PRs. The rate at which they choose to grow the population is much faster than the replacement rate - by a factor of 5. They want to convert many to PRs and citizens. Now they assume there will always be enough jobs, there will be enough infrastructure expansion to accommodate the people, inflation which is high now will not get worse. But what they are doing is putting a lot of risk on Singaporeans with this plan. With the financial crisis just behind us, we see inherent weakness in the big economies - Europe is indebted and aging, US is heavily indebted and must cut spending, China facing a mountain of restructuring in the coming years. If global aggregate demand falls, we will suddenly see our artificially enlarged population competing harder for fewer jobs as the ability of our economy to support this enlarge population falls.

Singaporeans already see the clear and present danger of such a policy in the past decade. It has caused a sharp rise in our cost of living, it caused our income gap to balloon as the foreign influx caused a wealth transfer from the employed to businesses that used them, we are also familiar with the effects of overcrowding in public spaces and public transport. Few Singaporeans believe that continuing a high foreign influx will improve their lives but the govt is driven by other interests other than that of ordinary Singaporeans. It has a power structure constructed to benefit those who form part of the elites and a network of GLCs, many of which are monopolies, that will benefit greatly from a larger population. Singaporeans cannot afford not be awake at this late hour and allow the PAP govt to execute what is proposed in the white paper. The PAP will do anything to achieve its political goal to benefit those who form its power-elite structure.

"Of course, they ask good questions. How can you be sure? More population, but quality of life remains the same or even better?"
"Actually, the answer is yes," he emphasised. "It's possible."

- Minister Khaw's reaction to the white paper[Link].

Minister Khaw slipped when he was asked if such a population growth plan would improve the lives of Singaporeans ...he said that that improving Singagporeans' lives was "possible". If the Singapore govt has been putting the interest of Singaporeans ahead of everything else, the singular purpose of the population plan should be to ensure that Singaporeans have a better quality of life - that should be the only goal of the plan not the goal of 5% GDP growth in the white paper. However, bettering Singaporeans' lives is just a possibility assuming that our infrastructure can keep up with the population expansion. Infrastructure has not even caught up with the influx of the last decade ..it is dangerous to assume there will be no severe strain as we push the population density to even higher levels - today we are already at the highest living density in the world and the PAP govt wants to push this even further.

No other developed country tries to grow its economy by importing people even though fertility rates have generally fallen in these countries because of the deep negative effects of doing so. If our competitors are not doing it, why do we have to do this in order to compete and grow? What is increasingly clear to Singaporeans is the PAP govt is willing to use this brute force method to create growth which the white paper stated as a goal of 5% GDP to ensure businesses including its network of GLCs can grow profits.  Without fully addressing the income gap, the beneficiaries of this growth will be the small % at the top of our income distribution. We have already seen first hand the deleterious effects of this type of GDP growth on Singaporeans in the last decade and nothing will change because the goal of the PAP remains the same.




146 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Singaporeans cannot afford not be awake at this late hour and allow the PAP govt to execute what is proposed in the white paper."
Lucky Tan

Even awake also no use what. PAP is still the government with 80 seats in Parliament, even they just lost one. And will still be the government in 2016.

Instead WP must be awake. Or failing which, a better party than WP must be awake. Awake to be ready to form the next government by 2016. Then got use.

Anonymous said...

The biggest problem in Singapore is not too many foreigners, the PAP, the rich poor gap, cost of living etc etc.

It is the lack of a better alternative to the PAP as government.

Anonymous said...

Dear Lee Hsien Loong.
Fuck you!

I curse you everyday I wake up.
I curse you for making our lives so hard.
I curse you for bringing in so many foreigners to compete for our jobs.
I curse you for taking millions and doing such a fucked up job.

I hope you will burn in hell.
I hope PAP will break apart.
I hope a new government will take over.
I hope your cancer will take you down

Fuck you!
Fuck you!
I fuck you!

Anonymous said...

"It is the lack of a better alternative to the PAP as government."
Anon 31/1/13 12:14

But this is not a PAP problem what.

In fact PAP should be very happy with this problem. Maybe that's why they even dare to set a 7 million population target. Not scared one.

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans in their self interest must reject the papist Leegime. There is no choice. To allow the papist Leegime to continue will only mean one thing - tougher times for Singaporeans.

Anonymous said...

They're leaving a population time bomb for the next party that formed the govt . In order words, could be planning their exit already. The new line cost 18b n indebt the country presuming reserve are burned off sufficiently. All GLC asset monetisation would accelerate, saleable lands tendered away, leaving empty shells for whosoever that takes over this island of 7million hungry and aging souls perhaps the next party would have to beg MY for merger if they still want us.

Anonymous said...

They're leaving a population time bomb for the next party that formed the govt . In order words, could be planning their exit already. The new line cost 18b n indebt the country presuming reserve are burned off sufficiently. All GLC asset monetisation would accelerate, saleable lands tendered away, leaving empty shells for whosoever that takes over this island of 7million hungry and aging souls perhaps the next party would have to beg MY for merger if they still want us.


31/1/13 12:23


mayb true scary..

Anonymous said...

The past already informs us that the PAP was unprepared to handle the recent increase in non-citizen population in Singapore. And yet, in this White Paper, they are telling us that will now handle it better?

What track record have they got to show for this and they have failed and have CURRENTLY also FAILED in this endeavor?

Anonymous said...

The fallout from the last fiasco of the "two is enough policy" can and was ameliorated by immigration. Hoewever, any fallout from overpopulation wil lead to the disasters you foretell.They cannot be remedied without great pain and possibly violence. The days when LKY and GCT boast of being able to see 30 years or more without being challenged are over. We now have a more discerning citizenry and the new social media.Remember the decade of "futurologists" like the late Herman Kahn? He was feted by Singapore leaders. Good riddance to bad rubbish, as they say.

Anonymous said...

Well done, Lucky Tan!! How did you pull out this newspaper cutting???

Anonymous said...

I have never seen such greedy people in power. They stand to benefit only with their 50pc control of economy via glc. This is political corruption at its best.

Anonymous said...

I saw this article and hope it will not happen to us....

http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321

Ah Beng said...

This paragraph neatly sums up where we're at:

Few Singaporeans believe that continuing a high foreign influx will improve their lives but the govt is driven by other interests other than that of ordinary Singaporeans. It has a power structure constructed to benefit those who form part of the elites Ñand a network of GLCs, many of which are monopolies, that will benefit greatly from a larger population.

Anonymous said...

Alamak Lucky Tan, why you use a 1960 ST article? More than half a century already, you know.

Last time police wear shorts.

Last time no TV even, let alone computer and internet.

Last time, opposition very power one, more powerful than PAP, not like now.

Last time no GRCs, and even barbers can become MP.

And last time China was under Chairman Mao where everybody was poor. Look at China now. So many multi millionaires and billionaires and this is also why our property prices are so high now.

Cannot compare what.

Anonymous said...

In another country, people will be on the streets protesting and newspaper will be criticizing the government... But PAP has eliminated such venues long ago.

patriot said...

"And will still be the government in 2016". Unquote.
This is where the Voters then come in. It is not fair to call on Alternative Parties to win your votes and voters behaved liked cowards as in 2011 GE.

In the Last GE, National Solidarity Party(NSP) contested in almost all constituencies. Though It was given good supports of over 40% at most of the Wards, none of their candidates entered Parliament. Me surmised that most voters were happy with PAP.

Surprisingly, the affection for PAP wanes almost immediately after the GE. This was reflected in their defeats in the Subsequent By Elections at Hougang and the Latest Punggol East SMCs. And this happened despite the Fact that PAP behaves no differently from Its' usual style. It wad and is as arrogant as it has always been.

By 2015 or 16, Singaporeans will get to know if it is just all noise and fury when talking about local politics in Blogoland, coffeeshops and market place.

Much has been said, but at the end of it all, it just proved to be hot air and farting.

The proof will be in the pudding, how sincere Singaporeans are, whether their mouths match their hearts, we shall see it in the Next GE.
Or,
will the People call for a vote of no confidence before it(GE)?

patriot

Anonymous said...

Mr Tan, frankly the PAP have no more solution for Singapore. The PAP is bankrupt of "out of the box" thinking idea to create an innovative vision for Singapore apart from cannibalizing in a growing population policy. And i suspect the PAP leaders are tired. After reining for so many years helming the leadership of this inc. They are tired. They have no more ideas. This is the only idea they have. To keep Singapore going by expanding the population. And they shove it down our throat - take it or leave it. i think they are tired, they want to retire and hand over the realms of power to any party be it WP, SDP or wayang party. They hope to be voted out, they are actually secretly hopping we Singaporeans can vote them out in 2016 so that they can retire with their millions (after 20 years of pay increase to themselves).

The ultimatum from the PAP - this is our white paper for Singapore's future. You people take it or leave it. We PAP is going to wash our hands of you, the great unwashed, and you people can get your low thia kiang and what not to run Singapore. You unappreciative, ungrateful lumpen mass. We PAP is just sick and tired of you lot Singaporeans!

i think we should grant them their wish come 2016 !

Anonymous said...

We need a Few Good Women to trigger off more by elections by "comforting" our MIWs.

Laura ... where are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaochan

Anonymous said...

I have this strong nagging suspicion that this population ponzi scheme which has been around for a while but just got promoted to the higher echelons of millions per year instead of hundreds and thousands in the past is allowed for political reasons other than economic ones. GDP growth to ensure growing profits and benefits for the PAP elites is one reason because many PAP elites have partnerships and honorary memberships in some corporation and so on. But above all, mass converting all these foreigners to citizens to chalk up numbers will in fact ensure their continuing political survival because the foreigners who are naturalized will vote first for the party that grants them benefits such as a new citizenship.

Anonymous said...

Too many bodoh people

Chamari Edirisinghe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

There was a time in 1960+ when LKY went on a series of radio talks to sell the battle for merger between SG & Malaya at that time. The entire proposition was also pitched around how we cannot survive alone. The danger of delay, and if we delay merger, everyone will suffer. There will be less business, less profits, less pay, less jobs...yada yada..Net nett, if we don't merge, we die. Guess what happens, we didn't merge, and we survived!

Today, the son wants to repeat the same from the father. If we don't merge in with more Foreigners/PRs, we will die!! Sounds familiar? Well guess what, maybe let's hope the PRs/Foreigners actually don't want to merge with us...they are just here as leeches while the going is good. Nobody wants to be converted SC..I have too many foreign friends enough to know..so, my advice to Singaporeans is this.

DO NOT ACCEPT the 7m population. We the people will chart our own course, our own life, with and without PAP...WP..SDP whatever parties. We tell them the only growth is organic growth, not enforced growth like how they want to pump in more steroids! WE TELL THEM WE DECIDE and they execute!

Anonymous said...

It is just a few of them....like watching lousy football players taking center stage.

You are forced to watch the game to the end. Sure, some jeered. Even pelt rotten eggs.

But the laws are there to keep order.

The untouchable few that would have been easily shredded into pieces by the millions of spectators

Amazing isn't it?

Anonymous said...

The Father and the Son
and the Son remains the Son
taking the idea and instruction
as a son must.
The son cannot be the Father
untill the Father is no more.
Anyway the Son is not the
Father in calibre.

2030 is too far away for many
to see. Or see not.

Lucky Tan said...

Chamari Edirisinghe,

For now I cannot do a face to face interview.

You can sent your questions to seeker9912@yahoo.com and we can get in touch.

Anonymous said...

Father Son and the.....Dove

Anonymous said...

Rubbish. This is precisely how PAP trapped us in re electing them. How do you judge them to be capable? Are those 3 ministers who got booted out making more than when they were ministers? Even equal is a failure as they were supposedly sacrificing with such a high pay. How about the other 3 ministers who 'stepped' down? Bill Gates replicas here or another hogwash? So my friend, any one is as good as PAP, even you if you run as an independent opposition and given the position will prove yourself as good if not better not the MIW.

Anonymous said...

If a dynamic singapore means having ferrari speeding down our streets at 3am, then I am not going to accept it.
The ordinary populace just need a livable place to live our lives and bring up our families.
The current size is already stressing our public infrastructure. How are we sure that 6.9m is even more sustainable?

The white paper needs to clarify what the keywords "sustainable" and "dynamic" are suppose to mean and for who.

Anonymous said...

Remember how Aware tried to wrest control by injecting new members? That is the ultimate aim, by hook or by crook LkY style!

Anonymous said...

60% still supported PAP blindly in the last GE. I am glad that most PE voters have came back to their senses in the recent By-election. As for those stubborn and daft PAP supporters, I hope the release of the Population White Paper (after the BE) will wake you up.

With PM admitting that he and his team did not have 20/20 foresight, we should not leave the big decision on growing population to them. Singapore is ours, not just the current ruling party, we must have a say on this population issue that will affect not just us but our next generation. We should have a referendum!

Anonymous said...

But they get...Father ..Son...and the Daft haaa

Anonymous said...

@Lucky Tan, be careful with emails...
PAP can track you down through Yahoo.
Yahoo is very cooperative with government.
A few Chinese dissents have been traced this way by PRC government.

Anonymous said...

That old newspaper article...Lucky, you are really amazing.

I think we should not just let this topic be debated in Parliament and get it passed, we cannot expect all those 'Yes' men and women to say NO, and we also cannot expect WP to win this as they are outnumbered. I think all opposition leaders should put their differences aside and come up together with a plan to help Singaporean who do not like this idea to fight it off.

The Pariah said...

The rot that started from 2G PAP under Goh Chok Tong's team has spread virulently during 3G PAP under Lee Hsien Loong.

Singaporeans will pay the price over the next 15 years for the policy/legislative mis-steps of the past 25 years by the Pay And Profit (PAP) Govt.

URGENT for Opposition Parties (esp WP) to quickly learn the ropes of Government and Governance to start taking over the reins over next decade.


Opposition Parties do NOT have the luxury of time to merely be the checks-and-balances of PAP for the coming decade.

Anonymous said...

Because majority thinks that there is no better alternative govt that's why they get voted in. We must not think in this way do give the opposition a chance. We must not expect changes immediately from them. Let's be united for the next election.

Anonymous said...

Yah..WP will "cheques and balance" lol.

In any case, the voting system will work against you :)

Anonymous said...

LKY was right. But he didn't know how to get round this problem

Anonymous said...

if a war breaks out in asia, will there be enough food?
if an air borne disease breaks out in asia, will there be enough hospitals beds and medical facilities? if there is economic crisis, will there be enough jobs? will there be enough space for our elderly? one minister already wanted to send them to JB at 5m population. will there be enough roads for cars? if coe is more than $100k, your food prices will all go up cos of delivery charges. will they abolish ns to free up more land? there are so many grey areas. what kind of white paper is this? no foresight or no competency?

Anonymous said...

Maybe they really want us to vote them out cos they have already emptied out the reserves.

Anonymous said...

Decision is right or wrong, there is only one way to tell.

One way

Anonymous said...

I asked myself 2 qns..

#1: Can the govt be really so uncaring?
- I believe the Mins are sincerely convinced that this is the right bitter medicine for Spore. From a raw GDP pt of view, which is a key KPI they set for themselves, u can apprec the grpthink of bigger population being helpful to grow GDP.

But isnt it clear that it is not sustainable in the long run to keep increasing our population? Well, that is for the next generation of leaders to sort out while I happily enjoy my golden pension. Its the same problem with the financial sector..nobody will be asked to pay back past bonuses if things turn sour. So ironically, what may be presented as courageous long-term planning could unconciously be driven by shorter term self preservation

To the businessmen (including GLCs) and the well- to-do in Spore, a bigger population. Lets not underestimate their influence to the whole process

Empathy? If I live in nice big house(s) and not take public tspt on a daily basis, I will really find it not possible to be truly connected to frustrations on the gnd.

Also importantly, we need to understand the social env/DNA of our leaders. Its too simplistic to think that they are just evil and uncaring. We shd rather appreciate that many in our leadership, including civil servants (several Permanent Secs, the current and ex MDs of EDB) are not born in Spore. Hence, its natural for them to be convinced that the foreign immigration system works well. Otherwise how would Spore have benefited from their talents!

#2 Can the govt be so brave as to not worry that this may cost them votes
- will new citizens be more likely to vote for or against them? that probably answer the qn. I think they believe and probably already have contingency plans on how they can win the next GE...it is afterall still a few years away.

Anonymous said...

I hope my GRC suddenly have an election. I would know who to vote for now and so do my family members. If not in 2016, everyone at home will not vote for you. I have given you guys a chance to prove to Singaporeans you can change in 2011 but you didn't change and still continue on your old ways. Time for you to go.

Anonymous said...

As if your votes count. So silly

More good years lol

chandra said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
I am a common man and doesnt know these technical area of politics and policies or legal rights.. But this thought has dawn upon me...
Is there any international authority like the UN where we the people of singapore can petition to stop the goverment on this please?
If yes, then how can we get all the singaporeans (not sure amount of head count to justify the petition) to sign and submit the petition..

Anonymous said...

Dear Singaporeans.
Let's get one thing perfectly clear.

THERE IS NO POPULATION PROBLEM.

This is just another piece of PAPig propaganda.

Yes, the PAPig wants a 6.9 million population.
For what, we don't know.
They are not very transparent people.
PAPigs call it a "problem" to con us into supporting their policies.

Don't believe them.
Just as you should not believe that;
"You own you HDB flat"
"PAP is on the side of Singaporeans"

Anonymous said...

Actually more worrisome is the 15,000 to 25,000 new citizens per year. In four year's time, there will be 100,000 to compete with the native citizens for house and jobs, hospital care, etc.(when the infrastructures are ready)

The 6.9m distracts us from the more important issues.

Let's hope that the building of massive infrastructure will at least benefit some of our citizens, though quite possibly, it will benefit foreign companies, like the following, which I chanced upon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPG_Corporation

http://www.cpgfm.com.sg/?page_id=757

http://www.downergroup.com/Investors/ASX-Announcements/2011/Downer-Signs-Agreement-to-Sell-CPG-Asia.aspx

I'm worried.

Anonymous said...

To announce the white paper so boldy after the P E loss shows that
1. PAP is very confident that they will continue to get the majority vote in 2016
2. Perhaps all is not what it seems with the national reserves that were invested (as suggested by Prof Balding... )hence the need for such drastic remedial action despite knowing it will not be well accepted

Anonymous said...

Is it rape?

Anonymous said...

PM Lee gave the excuse that the infrastructure problems we have today was due to his lack of 20/20 vision a few years ago. Dear PM, what makes you so cock sure tha your vision is now clear???!!!

Anonymous said...

Relying on large number of uncertain foreign animals is whats worrying.

20 to 30 years from now, who can tell how these animals will behave?

White paper or wipe out papers?

Anonymous said...

If that happen i hope the replacement government can create an org like mossad to hunt these traitors down one by one

The Pariah said...

URA Land Use Plan is eerily silent throughout 80 pages about the only other significant land supply source from en bloc sales.

OMG - 630 likes as at 6:30 pm, 31 Jan 2013 for one comment in Yahoo News article to vote in more Opposition MPs!

Law Minister K Shanmugam is in Nee Soon GRC - Remember this pls as we en bloc The Istana to Iskandar.

Using the en bloc law, MinLaw unlocks land value for Private Developers so that Rich Foreigners and Rich Naturalized Singaporeans can buy redevelopment projects in prime/popular areas, after pushing out Native Singaporeans who CANNOT buy back in same area with "windfall" en bloc sale proceeds when PROPERTY IS ALL ABOUT LOCATION AND TIMING.

This is what Pay And Profit (PAP) call "WHOLE OF GOVERNMENT" approach.

Anonymous said...

"The cowardly Sg'reans old school mindset must/should change". There's no other way, that's the only one way. Those brain-dead zombies still thought that without PAP as the gahment, Sg will surely die.

Beware of their goons and cronies final infamous fear-mongering spree in the MSM, a day before voting day :

"PAP may lose out and might not be returned to power".

The above acts of fear-mongering are very dangerous and deadly, that had successfully fooled millions of brain-dead zombies in most GE's.

So what if the PAP aren't the garment ? They're not running Sg, it's the Civil Service that are running Sg. And the wayang party WP, kept on saying they are not ready to take over as gahment. Such a pathetic bunch of free loader blokes, that wanted to be elected, but refused to carry responsibilities. Some said, they are slow and steady, LOLZ. So until when then they will be ready ? Coz, very soon we'll will be knead into a dough and stuffs into a can. Worse than the present sardine can. Just use your imagination.

PS : As for the other useless hopeless infamous wayang party (WP), back to their usual slumberland or birdshit collecting, I figured :)

Stuly Kan said...

Unproven assumptions in the white paper :
1. New citizens will have a higher birth rate than our 1.2
2. New citizens will not bring in their parents into Singapore to add to the aging problem
3. New citizens children will stay here, and do NS, and work here instead of using Singapore as a stepping stone to Australia
4. New citizens will be loyal to A Singapore which worships money
5. Singaporeans national identity will be unchanged

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Anonymous said...

"Is Population Growth a Ponzi Scheme?"

http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321

Lucky, the above 2010 piece, by the former Director of the United Nations Population Division may be a bit dated, but his arguments remain valid today. It is worth a read.

To quote from the piece:

"According to Ponzi demography, population growth — through natural increase and immigration — means more people leading to increased demands for goods and services, more material consumption, more borrowing, more on credit and of course more profits. Everything seems fantastic for a while — but like all Ponzi schemes, Ponzi demography is unsustainable.

When the bubble eventually bursts and the economy sours, the scheme spirals downward with higher unemployment, depressed wages, falling incomes, more people sinking into debt, more homeless families — and more men, women and children on public assistance.

That is the stage when the advocates of Ponzi demography — notably enterprises in construction, manufacturing, finance, agriculture and food processing — consolidate their excess profits and gains. That leaves the general public to pick up the tab for the mounting costs from increased population growth (e.g., education, health, housing and basic public services)."

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Anonymous said...

I am in my early fifties, reading a summary of the population white paper worry me.

Being a jobless graduate, my life quality have not been good for the last ten years due to displacement by the FT floodgate.

With this acceleration of population through the increasing import of FT for the next 17 years or so, do I see myself having a quality life? I will be glad if I do not end up being homeless and begging on the streets.

It is unfortunate that I will live to see the further deterioration of this country Singapore.

Our young who continue to live in this country will become a nobody among the sea of foreigner and have to suffer.

As many people have say, the National Conversation is just another "con" job. This papies government will still push through this White but Greyish Paper on Population.

long sign.

Anonymous said...

Do we really need to increase the population to 6.9 million?
Why can't we go the way of the northen europeans like Finland, Germany, Switzerland or even like Australia? They do not need to increase their population and their economy is doing quite well.

To accomodate 6.9 million people will require massive infrastructure upgrades which will increase the number of foreign workers and disrupt many lives. Do we need more cement mixers on the roads?

What will be the ratio of NSmen / NSF to non Singaporeans? With so few Singaporeans can we protect so many people?

Anonymous said...

How about redeveloping the Istana domain? There should be enough land there to build 10,000 HDB flats.

Anonymous said...

De-link the bonuses of the politicians from GDP growth and link them to a reduction of the Gini coefficient.

Anonymous said...

This exercise is not about population or quality of living. It's about creating a credible excuse to earmark a significant spend of our national reserves before the ruling party loses a 2/3 majority in parliament which may happen as early as the next GE.

Anonymous said...

"Infrastructure has not even caught up with the influx of the last decade ..it is dangerous to assume there will be no severe strain as we push the population density to even higher levels - today we are already at the highest living density in the world and the PAP govt wants to push this even further."
Lucky Tan

No lah, it will not get any more dangerous than it is already dangerous like now.

What is really dangerous is when the opposition parties unite as one party and contest 100% seats in GE 2016 and ready to be the new government. But can they?

So what so dangerous when even the best available opposition party is not even ready for this, tio bo?



Anonymous said...

Nothing is dangerous as long as majority voters think PAP is the best available to be government and WP is best to remain as opposition only. And for the rest, please get lost.

Anonymous said...

If 5 million population, majority Singaporeans can take it, 7 million should be no problem lah. 40% more only what.

If you eat one bowl of rice, surely you can still eat half a bowl (50%) more, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

"What will be the ratio of NSmen / NSF to non Singaporeans? With so few Singaporeans can we protect so many people?"
Anon 1/2/13 09:03

Why not? Unlike ancient times,we are not fighting battles with swords or bows and arrows anymore. No need so many soldiers what.

Anonymous said...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-biggest-housing-bubble-in-the-world-is-in-canada/272499/

Singapore ranks third, after Canada and Hong Kong

Anonymous said...

Eventually more aging problems and more vulnerable to foreign resources and influences. Economy troubling. Politics tumultuous

Anyone been to east coast during the weekend? Even on a weekday, the place is no longer tranquil.

Anonymous said...

This city already so stressed...everywhere go...ppl mountain ppl sea...no escape from smelly bodies and smelly breath...services mostly rude....ppl also very rude and no manners...campaign no use change them already so expect worse...now want to eat your favorite and famous food store already Q like mad...chairs tables also not enough...what quality living? ...yes..transport can be better...but living space cannot expand so easily or at all...services very stressed already how to be good with more ppl...what quality living? ...superficial living got lah

Anonymous said...

Don't go out lor...stay in your HDB and talk to your TV lor?..very quality what

Bob Tan said...

Lucky Tan what do you suggest we do? Absolutely nothing? That would be the easiest thing to do and avoid all the brickbats. The fact that they are prepared to stir the hornets nest goes to show that they care.Many of them may not be around come 2030 but your children and my children and grandchildren will be around to suffer the folly we left behind for them. Foresight can never be 20/20 but at least we are taking steps to avoid a tragedy that could have been avoided. Lets hope that our children will not curse us in the future for failing to do something.

Anonymous said...

Be suspicious of salesmen who rush you into making a BUY decision.
If it's a mistake then how?
The old man will come out and tell us "you went in with your eyes opened"?

They want our support ... okay ... but that comes with a price.

a. We want our CPF money all back by 55 years old. This is just asking them to keep their original promise.
Coming to think of it ... they have not kept some of their old promises have they?

b. An official statement from PAP that our National Pledge is not an aspiration.

c. GIC and Temasek to open their accounts for a review and audit by an independent 'Committee of Inquiry."

d. No more National Service. We install a professional army in place.

e. Reduce defence spending by 20%.

Please feel free to add to this list.

Anonymous said...

"Anyone been to east coast during the weekend? Even on a weekday, the place is no longer tranquil."
Anon 1/2/13 10:38

Go there for what? Enjoy the seaview, beach and the breeze? You must be joking.

Please go for a overseas holiday if you really need this.

Anonymous said...

Not only east coast. Any places of interest is madness.

Anonymous said...

Sure, add the number. Life still go on. But you can't say sin is peaceful and tranquil or the people are laid back, relaxed, charming and gracious.

Anonymous said...

When the Singapore govt curbed population growth in the 60's or 70's resulting in subsequent labour shortage and economic growth constraint, it could easily reverse the effects by opening the flood gate to migrants.

But, if importing huge number of migrants (as in the past and in the forseeable future) results in worsening problems of infra bottlenecks, sky-rocketing property prices, persisting lower wages or higher unemployment for locals (especially if there is a long-drawn downturn in global economy), unbearable polarisation of society...etc, could the govt then ask the migrants (PRs or New Citizens) to leave? In other words, this mistake will NOT be REVERSIBLE!

We need "20/20 vision" to be absolutely sure of growing population massively. Can the govt guarantee that?






Anonymous said...

Actually the overcrowding is already very bad now, but everything is still peaceful what.

OK lah, PAP lost by election, but so what? Which party can replace them as government?

Anonymous said...

"Actually the overcrowding is already very bad now, but everything is still peaceful what."
Anon 1/2/13 12:16

That's why forever will be peaceful lah, forever PAP will be government lah.

Anonymous said...

crowded is not peaceful

Anonymous said...

now want to eat your favorite and famous food store already Q like mad...chairs tables also not enough...what quality living?

So, anyone got solution for this?

Anonymous said...

Typical Life in Sin. Wake up, work or school. Eat and eat. Go home. Watch tv. Sleep. Repeat whole process. 7/8 of your life is like that. Very quality?. You are an economic number and don't you forget that

Anonymous said...

First they say 2 IS ENOUGH. Now we can see they lacked 20/20 vision back then.

Past few years they opened our door wide to immigrants.. And we hear the leader telling us they lacked 20/20 vision.

So come 2030.. They will tell us they lacked 20/20 vision.

Anonymous said...

They got 20M/20M vision

Anonymous said...

Here is one solution.

Tell your MP that every born and bred Singaporean family should get a chance to nominate and bring in 1 foreign talent of their own choice..be it from their ancestors' home in china, india or malaysia (since everyone has a migrant roots to trace). That way, you also get to help and ensure their successful integration. If not, PAP will be the one to bring in their own people, menaing more loyal people who give them their votes. But if this is done openly and transparently...every citizen has a stake, then nobody can complain. If they say no..then you will know their motives very clearly.

Anonymous said...

You will give up going to your favourite places. It's true there will be quality of life in your estate. Just stay in your home.

Anonymous said...

It's Just half truths. Like ignoring half a cup of poison

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Typical Life in Sin. Wake up, work or school. Eat and eat. Go home. Watch tv. Sleep. Repeat whole process. 7/8 of your life is like that. Very quality?. You are an economic number and don't you forget that
1/2/13 12:32

In between we fuk around

Anonymous said...

suggest all foreigners be offered "HARDSHIP ALLOWNACES" to encouraged them to change their domicile here?

am sure daft singaporean will not be angry if this really happened .. we are a forgiving and compassionate group

Anonymous said...

Mr Khaw said: “The figure, 6.9 million, looks aggressive, but we need an aggressive projection so that we can prepare for the worst. The worst is if we plan for the best, and then the worst comes, (or else) it will be under-provision, as what has happened in the last few years.”

Reiterating that the island can accommodate more people, he said: “This is not to say that we don’t have current problems. We have ... but we are addressing those as fast as we can, and they will be resolved.”

Asking Singaporeans to give the Government “some time” to rectify the current infrastructure issues, Mr Khaw added: “But even as we resolve current problems, our eyes must be on the future.”

We can even double the population in a compact and technological efficient environment. Then implement a structured lifestyle and adapt a code of regimental behavior and all will be fine

Anonymous said...

Close your eyes, worship till tears pour down your pale complexion and open your wallets wide.

You are in paradise garden

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Anonymous said...

Singaporeans are kiasu and kiasi. (scared lose and scared die)

By election made PAP lose but General Election will sure make PAP win.

Actually they have good reason to be kiasu and kiasi also. Or else sure si (die)if vote WP to be government.

Anonymous said...

Problems associated with high population growth. (http://www.ehow.com/about_5399211_problems-associated-high-population-growth.html)

If they can mess up with 5m, can they guarantee they will not mess up with 7m?

Anonymous said...

The elite ruling party is just a bunch of facist dead frogs. Only voting alternative parties can make them go away.

Anonymous said...

"The sooner nations reject Ponzi demography and make the needed gradual transition from ever-increasing population growth to population stabilization, the better the prospects for all of humanity and other life on this planet." -- Joseph Chamie

Anonymous said...

"No other developed country tries to grow its economy by importing people even though fertility rates have generally fallen in these countries because of the deep negative effects of doing so."

Not true. California and Texas has imported, especially by illegal means, so many Hispanics that the local Whites are now a minority.

There are so many illegal migrants in California that it is now even illegal for cops to act freely to check if Hispanics are here illegally.

And the worst part is, both major political parties are working on a bipartisan motion to grant legal status to illegals.

We are not the only advanced economy that thrives on the back of cheap labour. USA is also doing the same thing. Farmers and many small businesses either refuse to hire American, or can only survive by cheap labour from Mexico.

Anonymous said...

If the Singapore govt has been putting the interest of Singaporeans ahead of everything else, the singular purpose of the population plan should be to ensure that Singaporeans have a better quality of life - that should be the only goal of the plan not the goal of 5% GDP growth in the white paper.

Didn't they said they have the interest of Singaporeans ahead of everything. That shud be good enough for everyone. Unless you lose your job and are in dilemma now, you shudnt complain but wait for your turn.

Anonymous said...

"Didn't they said they have the interest of Singaporeans ahead of everything."

Do you think you should believe what they have said ? Or you should believe what you have already seen. Hahahaha.

Anonymous said...

You are right on one thing. No has changed. And we are planning to move to another country. You should run while you still can. Many who did 5-6 years ago are happy that they were right in their estimation. It will be worse the longer one delays moving to another country. Do what all the pinoys and PRCs are doing here. Take the same heed and move to another country for a better standard of living. The longer you hesitate the worse it's gonna get. Make your plans, people. PAP is selling us out. Don't waste time and youthful years to only regret later on in life.

Anonymous said...

You are right on one thing. No has changed. And we are planning to move to another country. You should run while you still can. Many who did 5-6 years ago are happy that they were right in their estimation. It will be worse the longer one delays moving to another country. Do what all the pinoys and PRCs are doing here. Take the same heed and move to another country for a better standard of living. The longer you hesitate the worse it's gonna get. Make your plans, people. PAP is selling us out. Don't waste time and youthful years to only regret later on in life.

Anonymous said...

"There are so many illegal migrants in California that it is now even illegal for cops to act freely to check if Hispanics are here illegally."

well, it is still illegal right.

Anonymous said...

In Australia, when then PM Kevin Rudd raised the subject of an Australian population of 30 million (currently about 21 million) he was severely criticised for being suicidal in wanting to degrade the quality of life. He met with huge opposition and was roundly blasted. So he has to quickly backtracked and claimed that he was misunderstood. Aussies are very sensitive to any degrade to their quality of life. A rising population is perceived as one of the sure way to lower the living standard of the individual. There will be more demand for water, living spaces and other natural resources as well as infrastructures. This in a country which is as big as Europe. In over crowded and tiny Singapore, quality of life is already at rock bottom. Another 1.5 million more people will turn Singapore into a living HELL.

Anonymous said...

http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=8321

Is population growth a Ponzi scheme?

Anonymous said...

"The underlying strategy of Ponzi demography is to privatize the profits (gic, temasek, sia, Capitaland, Singtel , nol.... Paid by taxes) and socialize the costs ( coe, land premium taxes) incurred from increased population growth"

Anonymous said...

The land in Australia, Canada, Us and etc, are very vast. They can coped with millions/billions and yet their Natives felt the danger coming in large numbers.

Sg is just a tiny red dot. So how ??? As I have said, kneaded into a dough and stuffs into a small tin can. Worse than the present sardine can. As the old fooled had said : "You die, your business". Daft !!!

"Take your co*ck and knock your own head".

An old school quotes, for someone who dig their own grave. Dedicated the quotes to the 60.1% daft :)

Xianlong said...

Back in 1960, PAP don't know a thing about the economy. UN dispatched Albert Winsemius to assist S'pore economic development. The pap know little to nothing about economic development.

Abrupt change in their mindset when pap discovered how easy to suck $$$ out of sinkies through government-linked companies. They become greedy. Very greedy since.

Greedy till this 6.9M madness comes out.

They are only good at sucking the natives. When GLCs venture abroad it's another different story.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Khaw wants us to prepare for the worst ( at 6.9 m). It's like they have no control ? 7 m can just happen without planning ? Pretty scary bunch. I'd like to say to the WP, I'm afraid you don't have the luxury of time. Either ensure you can form an alternative in 5 years or some other party will supercede you. Singaporeans will demand it and this is not the time to be coy.

Anonymous said...

"7 m can just happen without planning ?"
Anon 2/2/13 06:50

Got planning ma. Plan (or prepare) for the worst lah.

And if the worst happen, just too bad lah.

Anonymous said...

Aiya, even if Singaporeans go the way of dinonsaurs, still got foreigners ma.

If there are foreigners, then still got Singapore ma, tio bo?

If no foreigners, then no Singapore even, tio bo? Even worse, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

Just like NS, Singaporeans have to be sacrificed, if necessary, for Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Just like NS, overcrowding and voting PAP is a sacrifice Singaporeans have to make in order for Singapore to survive.

Only difference is NS is a sacrifice made by only male Singaporeans.

patriot said...

High time for Alternative Parties to call for National Service to be abolished.

It is not doing our young men any good and if NS Men are not happy, it will be difficult to want them to sacrifice for the Country, WHICH HAS NOW BECOMES MORE OWNED BY FOREIGNER SETTLERS.

The Army should be made up of regulars to take up soldiering as a profession.

patriot

Anonymous said...

How can Khaw say that it is worst case scenario ... Doesn't the ministry control all foreigners entering the country?

Anonymous said...

How can Khaw say that it is worst case scenario ... Doesn't the ministry control all foreigners entering the country?

Anonymous said...

I think there should be a balance in what PAP wants to achieve. Although 5% growth is good, the moral of its citizens is important as well.

I remember reading articles about this gross happiness index and bhutan being somewhere on top and singapore sits at the bottom.

What this tells us is that being economically advance with high GDP growth does not equate to happiness of its citizens. It may make the top 3% happy but the rest of us down here will just struggle the rest of our lives just to make living in this little country bearable.

Anonymous said...

...high GDP growth does not equate to happiness of its citizens."
Anon 2/2/13 10:08

So?

And who is happy doing NS?

Anonymous said...

Fundamental principal of a democracy is for the government to do t will of the people. It is therefore the responsibility of the elected to find out what t people want.

Anonymous said...

Daddy, Daddy.
Singaporeans very angry with me.
I think I'm going to lose GE 2016.

Daddy, Daddy.
How are ah?

Daddy, Daddy.
Why don't you say something?
Daddy, Daddy.
Why are you clutching your chest?
Daddy, Daddy.
Why are you vomiting blood?

Daddy? Daddy?

Anonymous said...

The question is why the desperate push for growth to compensate. The nigging worry might be that our reserves is depleting so much more faster then the deposits.. and the govt is trying to use the population card to side step the main issue?

I really hope that this isn't the case.

Anonymous said...

Lucky,if you are able to come up with some link on the said PAP declaration of 1.6 million too crowd,that will be great!

Anonymous said...

Sin is unlike US. We probably have a higher ratio of losing our citizens to other countries than them. And the emigrants in US will likely be rooted there than here.
Unless Sin can transform into a highly livable for ALL social stratum in society, artificially raising the population for mostly economic relevancy maybe foolhardy

Anonymous said...

Dear Lucky Tan,
121 comments in your Blog & not one focus on the issue of food supplies! 6.9 million people target & no ability to grow food domestically to feed them. There is the problem of climate change in the world today - droughts, floods, catastrophic weather - affecting food production. The seas are overfished & polluted. The high price of oil indirectly causing food prices to go up - fertilizers, farm mechanization, food storage & distribution - these rely on energy from oil to produced them.
Already, one of the most telling part of food insecurity is rising food prices. Last year, the political turmoil in Middle east can be indirectly attributed to rising food prices and poor economy - no jobs, corrupt system, etc. In Singapore, a bag of rice cost more now than a few years ago - only NTUC sells their own brand rice below market. We depend on our near neighbours to feed us - Malaysia & Indonesia (meat, poultry, eggs, vegetables, fruit, etc); Thailand (rice, fruit, etc). If they turn off food supplies much like refusing to sell sand for Singapore relentless land reclamation projects - what are you going to do?

Anonymous said...

They are looking towards the future of technology. We maybe closing in on the culprit soon

Anonymous said...

Join the Hong Lim Park rally. If our government dares to publish this proposal right after the defeat to remind the people who is in-charge, then Singaporeans have to stand up and remind the government of their job. Was it not recently that they said that they wont take anymore foreigners and will slow down. How come we now hear the government making a U-turn and changing it's story? Our government is good at telling stories and spinning yarns about their policies. There is clearly an agenda for the rich elites businesses here. We have to be very careful adn vigilant what the government tells us these days because they are good at reassuring singaporeans with lip service. Our president is sleeping on his job and he is invisible. Singaporeans too are still sleeping and not awake. Singaporeans need to step up now more than ever in the history of singapore because now they are being replaced by their own government policies. 50% foreigners is not a serious matter. Why was this grave issue not discussed nor mentioned during the National Conversation and suddenly this information was released to the public right after the Punggol East defeat? The government is trying to neutralise something. I think they want to send a message to their own supporters that they are still in-charge. One thing is clear: PAP is not above things at all. Singaporeans need to learn to stop complaining and start acting cos they are now being replaced. There is a limit to ignorance, apathy and stupidity. There are times where one can be "bo pian" and so be it. This is one of those times where you can't afford to be bo pian. Singaporeans need to act out and speak out publicly in any conversations. Singaporeans are already taken for a ride all these 12 years and ministers are pulling a fast ones with all their responses.

Anonymous said...

They have burned Singaporeans' CPF money in bad investment. THat's why they are desperate to do this.

Anonymous said...

WP won 54% of the votes. It's not 75%. Conclusion: Nothing has changed. It didn't even goyang. Good luck to all those who are supporting PAP policies. May you wake up one day. Singaporeans will only wake up when they themselves are personally hurt. Otherwise, they will run on auto pilot values of kiasism and kiasuism. LT, you need to weave it a little bit more ethical arguements to convince your readers vis-a-vis the hard truths you present.

Anonymous said...

世界上最高薪的政要竟然如此举棋不定,出而反而,把国家長远的大计当兒戯!把民生当賭注!他妈的!

Anonymous said...

I like the idea of maintaining a "core group" and this group can be "refreshed" to keep the number stable. .. like a quota system with special entitlement.

Against the idea of duo citizenship

Anonymous said...

Please don't over build, it makes people nervous

Anonymous said...

Ling tock kock... what rubbish you writing?

Anonymous said...

State times cock suckers are comparing Sin with cities with hinterland or taking these cities as model

Why don't you go put a Chinese prick and a nigger prick together and compare?

Anonymous said...

Even if the FT is paid more and barks at you sometimes you are still reasonably well off. As long as the party delivers and you can make ends meet you should be happy and not complain. Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?

Anonymous said...

What's for lunch? Pigs beget Pigs

reddotsg said...

I think i see where this is going, have a higher pop, is going to require more electricity, this will give the excuse that it will be cheaper n more efficient. Once you have the nuclear plant in, it will give the excuse that we can support even higher population.
What do u think?

Anonymous said...

There are winners and losers in every policy. The winners in this policy are clearly the very rich and the middle class from emerging countries coming here to work. THe rest are big time losers. Come GE2016, hope everyone know what to do. DO NOT VOTE FOR DEAD FROGS.

Anonymous said...

PAP.
Pass Away Peacefully is good.
Pass Away Promptly is even better.

Anonymous said...

Voting Opposition is like making love.
It gets easier with practice.

Anonymous said...

GDP growth will not necessarily trickle down to all citizens; in fact in might be a negative sum game if the foreign workers who gets all the jobs repatriate their earnings, the MNCs who receive EDB grants in the billions and tax-free profits repatriate all their profits. There are however two groups which will always benefit from higher GDP growth and more FT respectively: 1) those whose bonuses are pegged to it, ie top senior civil servants and ministers. 2) those who own investment properties besides the house they are living in will of course be jumping for joy (but your children or grandchildren might be homeless in 30 years!

Anonymous said...

"GDP growth will not necessarily trickle down to all citizens..."
Anon 2/2/13 18:41

But at least it will benefit the rich, the elites and foreigners.

If no GDP growth, nobody benefits. That's even worse, tio bo?

So better some benefit rather than no one benefit lah.

Anonymous said...

It's the choice of the lesser of 2 evils.

PAP as government is better than WP as government, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

"PAP as government is better than WP as government, tio bo?"
Anon 2/2/13 19:38

Exactly lah. That's how 60% think every general election.

Unless Low Thia Khiang said he is ready to be Prime Minister because WP become very strong.

Anonymous said...

Let's not be short sighted arsehole. The main reason for the increased population as opposed to the previous 1.7 million is related to the effects of consumption driven domestic markets by enlarged middle class across Asia from which we belatedly took the cue. That's how we abandoned the earlier population control policy and moved quickly to a consumption driven taxation model in anticipation of the phenomenon revenues from goods and services taxes. When the figures spike to 10% gst and 10 million population for some reasons, the main beneficiaries will still be you and you all. The country need the growth, it can't be helped.

Anonymous said...

Among the opposition, who is ready to be Prime Minister?

Chee Soon Juan?

Son of JBJ?

Hazel Poa?

Chiam See Tong/Lina Chiam?

Benjamin Pwee?

Last but not least Desmond Lim?

Hahahahahahaha - laughter from PAP member.