Thursday, February 14, 2013

S. Korea; : Growing the economy through innovation and productivity....

Due to low fertility rate of 1.2 and a generation of baby boomers born around 1960s, the S. Korean society is one of the fastest ageing in the world. So far the S. Korean govt has not resorted to massive immigration and opening the floodgates to cheaper foreign labor. Businesses without access to cheap foreign labor have to increase productivity by investing in automation, improving its businesses processes and innovation.

Despite mounting pressure from businesses demanding cheap foreign labor from Philippines  China and India, the S. Korean leaders did not succumb to pressure to implement pro-business policies to allow businesses to import cheap labor to boost their profits. The S. Korean economy did not sink from the lack of labor force growth instead flourished with improvements in labor productivity and the innovation of home grown industries.  We sometimes forget that S. Korea is a relatively small country with a population of 50M given its cultural influence and industrial giants like Samsung. The policy choices made by S. Korea are hardly unique. Smaller countries like Finland and Denmark (5.5m population) with ageing population chose to focus on maximizing the talents of their indigenous population and growth through productivity. The PAP claims we need to import foreigners to care for old (support ratio argument). The aged in these countries are well taken care of without the need for massive import of people ...did our massive import of people in the last decade help to secure a comfortable life for our elderly? No, our many of our old folks are working at an age when they should be retired and struggling with poor health because there is little help for them from the state.

The White Paper "projects" a 45% foreigner population and this % is  higher if you count foreigners convert ed to citizens - the people born and raised in Singapore will probably drop to below 50%.

To see how extreme the PAP policies have been and will continue to be with the White Paper,  we take a look at S. Korea’s plan for 2030:

"With one of the world’s fastest-aging populations, South Korea has gone from a country where labor was the only abundant resource to one seeking staff to help run the plants and farms of Asia’s fourth-largest economy. While neighboring Japan has largely rejected imported labor as a solution to its aging workforce, South Korea is beginning to accept it. Immigrants have risen sevenfold since 2000, to 2.8 percent of the population, and could make up more than 6 percent by 2030, the government said." Bloomberg Report [Link]

Yes, a dynamic vibrant world beating S, Korean economy that presently has 2.8% foreigners will increase it to 6% by 2030. By keep its labor force tight, and not yielding to pressure from businesses for cheap foreign labor, S. Korea had been able to build on its first economic miracle to create a 2nd carried by the cultural creativity of  Gangnam Style and technological innovation in Samsung's Note II. Singaporeans today are told there is no alternative but to continue with with old policies of growth by importing labor. Our business lobbies, the various chambers of commerce, echo the threats of businesses to leave or close down unless they are given access to foreign labor - the ;last 15 years of pro-business policy of opening the floodgates to foreign labor has made our businesses more dependent on foreign labor. Unless we take bold steps to break out of this vicious cycle now the damage we bring to ourselves will be irreparable.




105 comments:

Anonymous said...

PAP ran out of ideas and if they have no more new ideas they should step down each and everyone of them. Shame on them for not the problems and yet creating more problems for tomorrow. Down with the white paper on 6.9 million people. We do not want casinos nor more foreigners period.

Anonymous said...

Singapore at one time restricted the population birthrate at 2, the populations were around 2 millions. At that time, sometimes water were rations as there is not enough water, and foods supply sometime shortage.

And needed to find jobs to feed the populations. So Singapore draw in cheap foreign labour intensive industries and Singapore grow rapidly, when China with its cheap, educated billion of population not yet open.

Base on the assumptions the old age getting worse. But the cause could be due to their children move oversea to more attractive lest crowded destinations. And the new citizens leaving behind their children in their previous countries due to raising them is cheaper there. Making problems more serious?

Advancement of technology had driven the birthrate replacement/dependency ratio to 1.7 from the assumptions of 2.1, it could drive the dependency ratio down further with further advancement of technology to the replacement rate of 1.5.

Advanced small countries with high standard of living and low income gap. Are technology advancement driven, they continue to innovate and upgrade their economy through technology in making better product and services, so that there is little low wage workers and their old populations are well taken care of. Their birthrate is 1.9 through various babies friendly enviroments and incentives.

Singapore can't continue to depend on old technology and labour intensive industries to drive the economy due to the rising COE, Rentals, Levies GRP & GST etc?

Keep on making better products through innovations,creativity, efficiency, inventions & prodivities etc is the way?
Home grown SME got to develop to venture oversea and keep making better product? More of our home grown SME need to be groom to be multi national companies?

Plucky Tam said...

Oh come on! I don't think it's fair to compare Singapore to a First World country lik South Korea.

Anonymous said...

God did not give South Korea a PAP.

God gave PAP to Singapore.

It is now up to Singaporeans whether to still want to accept PAP.

But then, if don't accept PAP, accept what? WP? SDP? NSP? RP? Or Lucky Tan P?

Problem man, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

Yes, Lucky Tan P, akan datang.

Ready to screen by 2016.

Anonymous said...

I believe in God. By 2016, God willing, problem will be solved.

Rin said...

We all know the real reason why the floodgates are opened and citizenship is given freely. PAP knows its in trouble. They need new citizens to vote for them.

eremarf said...

If don't accept PAP accept what?

PAP is not so united itself. Look at the ideological splits within the PAP. Look at how Inderjit has been outspoken. Also look at how silent some have been, e.g. Tharman - maybe he disapproves but does not find it easy to speak up in opposition. Contrast this with Teo Chee Hean and Khaw Boon Wan and other ministers, who are so devoted to the PAP ideas they will say logically inconsistent stuff.

The PAP might transform in time if they lose popular support. Don't count that out.

The question you're asking is - what's the "trade-off" A vs B.

A = PAP remains in power because people don't think opposition is ready, so PAP continues to implement their ideas, for better or worse.

B = PAP is replaced in near-future elections, coalition-with-PAP or opposition parties form a cabinet of uncertain quality.

What's the trade-off really? Is it that big? Do you think Ministers do a lot of the day-to-day running of a country (isn't the civil service doing that)? If we're willing to accept low-growth and industrial adjustment for a while, I think we have nothing to fear. In the worst case scenario, I think businesses will leave in the short-term, but average Singaporeans' lives will get better (how can it get worse?), and in the long run, new businesses will be started locally or will come in from abroad.

To understand why Singaporeans' lives will not get worse - you have to understand how wealth is distributed in Singapore nowadays. (Lucky - please post more graphics, or illustrate with examples, stories, etc.) Most people in the middle class will have improved lives if we change the way we tax and distribute wealth.

For starters, look at the US. Singapore has a similarly high (in fact higher) GINI coefficient. And the US graphics look like this.

http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsociology/2010/10/07/americans-estimate-our-wealth-distribution-and-fail-horribly/

How can 20% of the people own more than 80% of the wealth? How much can the overall lives of people in society improve if we just share it a bit better? (Caveat: not sure how bad it is in Singapore - just inferring that SG is similar to US because we have similar GINI indices)

Anonymous said...

Base on assumptions the right figure could be around 5.6m ?

With the advancement in technology the birthrate dependency ratio from replacement rate 2.1 to 1.7 and drop to 1.5?

More intensify research and development to upgrade singapore capability form a cheap labour industries country to a highly developed low income gap countries,through massive incentives scheme and program and high living standard country?

More Singapore multi national industries were produces raising the Singapore low wages workers to higher wage workers?

Vigorous and intensive training and ideas input form the workers on how best to streamline raise the companies productivities and efficiency were highly encouraged, to identify how to make best seller and improve the service feedback?

eremarf said...

@Anonymous who said this:

"Singapore can't continue to depend on old technology and labour intensive industries to drive the economy due to the rising COE, Rentals, Levies GRP & GST etc?

Keep on making better products through innovations,creativity, efficiency, inventions & prodivities etc is the way?
Home grown SME got to develop to venture oversea and keep making better product? More of our home grown SME need to be groom to be multi national companies?"

Of course we can't.

But all businesses will behave with "rational self-interest". If you give them cheap labour, such that if return on labour is cheaper than return on capital (machines, R&D, etc), then they will purchase labour. (Conversely, stop the flow of cheap labour - and businesses will rationally purchase capital instead.)

In fact, their rational self-interest also makes businesses do other nasty things such as:

1. Disempower labour - don't allow strikes, keep workers un-informed about labour rights, etc

2. Lobby the government - make noise about labour crunch (we've been seeing a lot recently in response to the White Paper), support the suppression of labour rights, etc

Businesses are organised around making money, in the short-term (because guess what? CEOs get paid based on short-term targets - and tragically SO DO OUR MINISTERS). Don't count on them to look after society. Citizens got to look after society ourselves. We do it by voting in governments that represent our views - not by governments that have sold themselves to businesses (although in Singapore, with Temasek Holdings, government = business - super conflict of interest going on).

Anonymous said...

When PAP says they want 80% of PMETs jobs for singaporeans, you already is another drug addict to feed the populace. They have no interest to groom nor promote entreprenuership if you know how these so called incubators are run. The President is only paying lip service and doing nothing...why compete with state run GLCs and risk turning them irrelevant?

Just hook the citizenry with more MNCs jobs like the cheap maids and foreign labors, in time to come, they will not scream bloody murder and stop more foreigners coming in.

Still need to put on a magnifying glass?

Anonymous said...

Do people even or ever question the legitimacy of the data that 80% of singaporeans live in HDB flats?

I just find that incredibly high and suspicious frankly.

If 80% live in HDBs, that means 20% are in private estate or condos. But look at the amount of condos that's been built over years...so what are we saying..the foreigners/PRs are the ones staying and living in Condos and private estates..in other words, the majority of foreigners/PRs are living a better quality of lives than Singaporeans!!

SG parents have to go to their children's schools for volunteering to secure a place. PR/foreigners go to international schools ready build with places for their children. SG parents cannot send their children to international school..but foreigner/prs can send their children to local schools..that's called integration!

70% of PRs reaching NS age didn't serve their NS..they chose to opt out of citizenship.

And now, Hri Kumar wants to solve the problems with money again..by buying out our NS boys.
Unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous
"How can 20% of the people own more than 80% of the wealth? How much can the overall lives of people in society improve if we just share it a bit better? (Caveat: not sure how bad it is in Singapore - just inferring that SG is similar to US because we have similar GINI indices)
14/2/13 11:45 "

Actually 20% is an over-estimate. It is a more accurate estimate to say that less than 10% own more than 80% of the wealth in Singapore. I really mean LESS THAN. This act of squeezing out the middle class and exterminating them somehow is basically the government's current move so as to keep GDP growth in its favor. Singaporeans have to start doing whatever they can to stop this by convincing everyone who voted for the PAP to STOP voting for them and vote in the opposition.

Anonymous said...

I now think those who are still happy and satisfied with PAP is around 43%.

That is, no matter how bad PAP govt perform, 43% will still support PAP.

And 43% will drop further only if a better party than PAP emerge.

And that's when PAP will lose power.

But for now, where got better party than PAP?



Anonymous said...

Assuming tourist arrivals, from normally had grown from 8m to recently 13m, to be at 18m in 2015 by 2020 the tourist arrivals could be 20m, so Singapore will be much more overcrowded by then?

Now our population is 5.3m, should we restrict it to 5.6m base on assumption we could intensify the use of technology and infrastucture development to attract more toursim?
We need to be more conservation in our estimate if err it is difficult to revert. Every effort need to seek views and ideas how to run the economy with less manpower so to raise income and sstandard of living?

Base on more tourist arrival the lower wages older workers could be trained to cater for the surge in tourism and improve their wages and raise their standard of living?

So base on the less people easier to be develop to high pay and less income gap different population?

More suggestions how to develop S'pore to a high value added countries are encourage from the young highly talented, brain drain overseas?

TokyoSingaporean said...

Dear LT,

Could you explicitys mention what sorts of damages you're concerned about? You did not mention it but wrote that they would be irreparable.

Cheers!

Anonymous said...

It has already been damaged and irreparable.

43% votes for the PAP, that's the damage.

And WP not ready to form a better government, that's another damage.



Anonymous said...

Ordinary Sinkies losing their jobs is not considered damage if foreign talents are available to do it cheaper.

Just like Sinkies doing NS and losing out in career and earnings is not damage if no one dares to attack Singapore.

Anonymous said...

One man's damage is another man's gain.

So it depends on who you are referring to with regards to damages.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand:

Why does everyone say that the PAP is the best political party around when no other party has had a chance at governing this country?

When there have been so Many policy mistakes made by the PAP in the last 15 years or so in just about every area? Eg, if there is an epidemic now, our health facilities would not be able to cope. A little rain and there are jams or the trains break down.

When so many Singaporeans' standard of living is falling rather than rising?

When 80+% lives in PUBLIC housing meant for the POOR????? Does this mean that 80+% of Singaporeans are poor?

When, to keep its economy going, this country reverted to offering cheap labour - which has always been a desperate measure associated with 3rd world and developing countries, where education is low?

This is an avenue this country Refused to take 40 years ago when it had far less going for it than now!! But here we are, the world's Richest Country, relying on this cheap trick?????

I don't understand.

Anonymous said...

Wait for 2016 lah.

Now even if ready, also cannot change what. Must follow law, tio bo?

Like Anon 14/2/13 11:31 said, God will help in 2016 lah.

Anonymous said...

There are many ways to improve productivity. Here is what I observed in Toast Box and Kopitiam.

Toast Box uses cashiers to collect money, in Japan customers insert coins into a machine to do payment without the need of a cashier.

When you order toast in Kopitiam, the staff slices the bread into 2 thin slices before toasting it. To improve productivity the loaf of bread should come pre-sliced in the correct size so that the slicing is not needed.

The staff then proceeds to flip the toast on the open oven to toast both sides of the bread. To improve productivity a toaster should be used.

In the fruit juice counter, the staff has to clear and wash the grinder after every few orders as it is full. To improve productitivy the grinder could be linked to a rubbish bin so that this activity can be skipped altogether.

Anonymous said...

Singapore' sinmdustrial policies of the 1970s to 2000s were based on EDB's "subsidise MNC model" - give them alot of money and tax breaks and MNCs will come, they boost GDP but brought no permanent knowhows or jobs.

Today, we have only memories of failed national champions, (remember Temasek companies like STATs or Chippac?) Why does Singapore not have world beaters like Korea and Taiwan? Why do we resemble HK Aust or UK, totally devoid of innovators and totally reliant on real estate bubbles and finance? One simple reason: all our scholar leaders were educated in the UK, where David Cameron is now going to India to ask for more Indian immigrants to go to London to boost its real estate sector and its GDP. All these scholars achieved puberty when Margaret Thatcher's TINA (There Is No Alternative besides cutting spending, and privatise all state owned companies to their cronies - no wonder Thatcher's hometown does not even want a free statue of her in their town). These same scholars now made ministers, have no idea what it takes to develop a country's industrial base to create jobs, having not worked a single day in the real job market. True to the anglo saxon education, they read The Economist for the latest economics fad idea: yesterday was globalization, today productivity, tomorrow its immigration and old age. There is no world outside the anglo model, which has financialised itself to death since the 2000s and abandoned its ability to innovate and manufacture. hence the reliance on property bubbles and money laundering to grow the GDP. Alternative parties shud start looking seriously if they wish to propose true alternatives, or else they risked being shown to be PAP-clones when 2016 or 2021 comes. Instead of UK model, go study Germany or Korea, even Japan, which has survived deflation and aging population and screwed-up politics rather well.

Anonymous said...

The real reason why the floodgates are opened and citizenship is given freely is because PAP knows and depends on new citizens to vote for them.

Anonymous said...

Hello Lucky, thought you might find this interesting, http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2013/02/rules-managers-turn-immigrants/.

Anonymous said...

PAP is a one trick pony.
The pony is LKY.
Does PAP have any new ideas beyond LKY and his books?

I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

/// Oh come on! I don't think it's fair to compare Singapore to a First World country lik South Korea. ///
Plucky Tam

Why not fair?
Both Singapore & S. Korea started off as 3rd world countries.

S. Korea without PAP became a first world country.

Singapore with PAP continues to remain a 3rd world country. Because PAP does not know how to lead and manage a 1st world country.

Anonymous said...

To be like South Korea, Germany or Japan, a country should be strong in engineering.

In Singapore, are engineers a well paid and respected profession? Are we historically strong in design and engineering? These things don't happen overnight.

Instead, we have lots of cheap foreign talent engineers and other professions as a quick and easy solution.

And some were even caught for using fake degrees and diplomas.

Like that how to have value added innovation, productivity and technology advancement like South Korea?

Anonymous said...

What the PAP or the business assocation did not mention and will never acknowledge, cheap labour attracts MNCs but even cheaper labour from another country will make them move also. So wages will forever be depressed because we need to provide the cheapest labour to retain the MNC. That's why MNC like panasomic plays only 500 to their workers.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the LKY`s call for value added goods and services? It is a matter of public record that our productivity has gone down over the years. Can we expect better when GCT gave his take on productivity - that popiah man making more popiahs as he became more experienced!

Kaffein said...

From massive influx of Thai workers for construction developments and buildings in late 80s and early 90s, to two Casinos with promises to cretae new jobs for Singaporeans, to GST is to help the poor, to the latest 6.9 milion population white paper...

...truthfull do you think the common man on the street has benefited from their policies? Do you seriously think the PAP knows how to steer Singapore post financial crisis?

I doubt so. Gee, anyone who thinks the PAP is for the common Singaporean is seriously 'on crack'.

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans have more to gain than lose if those foreigners over-reliance companies packed up and leave. When these unproductive cheapo foreign workers companies closed down or leave this country, we Singaporeans have nothing to lose and more to gain by having more space to breath and relax.

Anonymous said...

If no population increase, 1. how to force older population to JB? 2. how to earn rental income from all those properties bought by MPs? 3. how to continue pay MPs more and more monies? 4. how to continue to attract foreigners to replace average locals? 5. how to make more monies by setting up $2 companies. 6. how to reclaim more land and make singapore biggger. This is to achieve the motto majulah singapore not majulah singaporeans. Get over it. If not happy, can always pack and go elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Better still, start a revolution and change the motto to majulah singaporeans.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous14/2/13 15:37PAP is a one trick pony.The pony is LKY.Does PAP have any new ideas beyond LKY and his books?I rest my case.

The pope resigned but there will always be a replacement so long as the seat is there

Anonymous said...

Plucky Tam said...
Oh come on! I don't think it's fair to compare Singapore to a First World country lik South Korea.

Strongly agree. We need to compare Singapore to Afghanistan (no offence to Afghans). Only then can we safely say that Singapore is world class and that PAP is the BEST! Number one! Without equal! Fully deserving of THE HIGHEST PAY among all the politicians in the world. A clean and corrupt free country, never mind even CPIB director also *ahem*.

Anonymous said...

The story so far - "PAP runs a government which has done many things for the good of the Singaporean." Some examples are:

- Raising GST (to help the poor)
- Raising cost of housing (asset enhancement)
- Raising cost of public transport (otherwise it will break down)
- Raising the number of immigrant workers (to support an aging population)
- Keeping labour costs low (aka your salary) (otherwise businesses will move out)
- Paying government officials 'market pegged' salaries (to help maintain a clean government)
- Giving generous scholarships to overseas students while encouraging locals to take up loans for their studies (for quality control of local degrees)
- providing employment statistics for local residents instead of Singaporeans (to avoid any emotional humps)
- designing infrastructure worth billions of dollars in case of a worst-case scenario of 6.9 million (to help avoid congestion)

60% of Singaporeans believed that story in 2012.

What matters is how many still believe in that in 2016.

Plucky Tam said...

"60% of Singaporeans believed that story in 2012."

The 60% of whom Low Thia Khiang is part of.

Anonymous said...

I doubt it's pte bizness pap bending backwards over, lky would never let himself be blackmailed by industrialists where they do in Taiwan with threats to leave for china enmasse if unhappy over govt policies. Instead the real lobbyists likely our stat boards, glcs which are clamouring for cheap foreign labors and looking to do bizs in other countries that's driving our immigration influx. These govt coys are in telecommunications, utilities and properties dev't, areas under state control. Different countries use different trade offs to gain access licenses/concessions from the foreign govts. Japan uses debt forgiveness in exchange, china uses money politics , we offer our passports, easy permanent residents, and citizenships freely. But pap must ensure their foreign friends can quickly settle in to compete for jobs and social entitlements with locals and to get sinkies to reconcile with this new reality that despite the educational qualifications they have spent much of their young time battling each other to obtain, people are coming in with special admission tickets. And hence the general labeling of foreigners as talents and local dafts are created, so that its own preaching of meritocracy do not stand in the way.

Anonymous said...

It is very simple. If you do not want pap to screw you anymore, then do not vote for them anymore. It may be better not to vote at all then to vote for a party that will continue to screw you inside out.

Outsider said...

How much is the president of S. Korea paid yearly?

Minghui Kuok said...

I believe the biggest problem may not even be about the foreign workforce as a collective. Simply put, there has always been certain jobs which no local Singaporeans will be willing to take. Most notably the construction workforce. S.Korea doesn't have this problem and this won't be that type of change the relevant company firms will be doing anytime soon.

Secondly, the entire situation in S.Korea has never been about SMEs vs MNCs. Singapore on the other hand, has never created a level playing ground by any extent. I do not have any griping on SMEs employing foreign labor because they can only do this much in terms of balancing their budget (unless the Gov is willing to give them stuff like annual budget grants which is of course impossible). MNCs on the other hand do have that kind of resources to employ locals for jobs that the locals want. The only problem? The Gov doesn't impose a stricter standard for the MNCs.

In short, MNCs and SMEs=all equal.

Anonymous said...

To grow its singapore inc, pap is content to take local jobs, scholarships to give to foreigners and let them jostle for limited quota of transport coes, schools places , private housings that push these desires out of reach from masses of locals except the elite.

Anonymous said...

The PAP has always run this country on greed and fear, the basest of human emotions. It appears to have become infected with these, as well as with power.

I don't believe it has ever really become acquainted with much else.

And after Kuan Yew's colleagues left, he was left to carry on with his own view of people as cattle rather than individuals. There was no one to reign him in any more.

Anonymous said...

PAP likes to charge market rates for businesses, aka high rentals, for government coffers, keep costs low for businesses, that is, depress wages to balance the high rentals. Fucky Tam likes to conflate PAP and WP. Too bab he is part of 43% who used to be able to brag that they are the 60%. Kanna screwed while trying to screw.

Anonymous said...

After 2000 Singapore suffer more then 3 recessions because of hollowing out of it manufacturing to China because of their cheaper cost, decided to bit the bullet agreed to built 2 IR at $16 billions?

Singapore can’t complete with china on cost, china had one billion well educated and cheaper workfore.

So the economy got a boost but the social cost is mounting?

we could have learn and send our people to some successful small developed countries,which produce successful industries through their own innovations and continue innovations, how to move away from low cost labour intensive foreign dependent base industries, to developing our own people, not replace by cheaper foreign labour, which is unsustainable in long run.

That left behind the lower end 20 percent workfore, which saw little improvement for years?

Now the challenge is how to raise the low wage worker and the older work force and retrain them to go into the tourism industries targeting projection at around $18M to the possible arrivals after 2020 of more then 23m? By then Singapore could be more very overcrowded?

Various input need to seek ideas from people around the work to rejuvenate our low end industries to high end industries?

The key inspiring words to go – Innovation, automations, creativity, productivity , effciency & inventions to upgrade Singapore lower wage workforce to close the income gap, not through kept importing people?

Anonymous said...

From 2009 to 2012, our tourist arrivals at 8m to 13m, projection at 2015 18m and 2020 to be 23m, so Singapore by then will be very overcrowded?

Anonymous said...

PAP is now in a desperate panic mode, paranoid that they are going to lose more power if nothing is done to arrest the flow of votes to opposition parties. Hence they come up with this shitty White Paper out of the blue.

It has nothing to do with babies nor ageing. If it had really been babies, they know that they can't do it with real good incentives otherwise the Malays will procreate at an even higher rates than desired.

The argument about youth supporting the aged does hold water either because they can't even tell us how much resources exactly is the Govt spending on the aged. It Just fall flat on their faces when they implement policies like the CPF MIN Sum and querying us what sort of meals do those on PA Assistance expect ? They are Just simply lying through their teeth?

Are we idiots to content with their comtinuing arrogance?

Anonymous said...

Good observation.
I've not seen this PAP government produce any data on the amount of social spending they are currently spending on our aged.

Example:
If PAP spends $0.00 of subsidy on Singapore's current aged with our current population of 5.1 million.

How much subsidy will PAP spend on the aged with a 6.9 million population?
ANSWER:
It will still be $0.00.

So 6.9 million population is not really to help our ageing population.

Anonymous said...

How can a minister who worry about drought when the population was less than 5.3m, gives assurance that there will be enough water resources in the future when the population reach 6.9m?

Everything mentioned in the white paper were worked backwards to support the 6.9m figure.

Anonymous said...

So what's going to happen even if population really reach 6.9 million by 2030?

It will be just like what is happening now, right?

Opposition will still not be ready and so PAP will still be government and protests will still be only at Hong Lim Park, right?

And netizens will as usual kpkb on the internet, right?

No?

What do you think?



Plucky Tam said...

Can you people stop whinging about the government?

"I think we have a competent government." - Low Thia Khiang

Anonymous said...

Exactly. Nothing will happen even if population reach 6.9 million.

Maybe real Sinkies will only be 50% or even 40% of that but that's OK if there are enough new citizens to give PAP 60% majority votes during GE.

And of course the minority PAP elites and ministers will still be real Sinkies with good life lah. After all, not many can be elites what, now or in future, tio bo?

So nothing will happen and life goes on, regardless of whether 3,000 or 30,000 turn up at Hong Lim Park to protest on 16 Feb 2013.

Anonymous said...

Bedtime Stories to Lull Small Boys to Sleep:
"I think we have a competent government." - Low Thia Khiang

Anonymous said...

I believe PAP knows what they are doing because they know Sinkies well enough that nothing will happen.

Anonymous said...

@ Plucky Tam
Can you people stop whinging about the government?
"I think we have a competent government." - Low Thia Khiang

How laughable.
A PAPig troll seeks endorsement from the Opposition.

Anonymous said...

Nothing worse will happen than what the bad has already happened.

Unless WP say we are ready to form a better government. But can happen or not, you say lah?

Anonymous said...

Ready or not.
We will have a new government in 2016.

Anonymous said...

Lee Hsien Loong deserve to be PM and Low Thia Khiang deserve to be opposition.

Because they know better than all the kpkb Sinkies know.

Anonymous said...

Not happy is it? So?

Anonymous said...

If real Sinkies are smart, they can still make lots of money and have a good life even if population is 6.9 million.

6.9 million population is not an issue but whether you are smart or not, that's the issue.





Anonymous said...

Singapore was successful in the 80s & 90s and had been voted the best workers in the world, with India and China with 2 billions cheap labour, the old model already can’t work.

Some countries we can learn from, they pay a little more taxes, but the money gone to training the workers develop new technology, better products and services?

This countries with their high free educations level & high standard of lving, with multi-parties systems together to help the govt. to stay ahead of the competitions?

Bring out the best of their workers, let them concentrate in making their companies the most succesful, left the worry about job security, birthrate, health and old age as their tax take care of it, could learn something from this system that provide the high standard of living and low wage gap?

Next the electoral is more interest in how the can live the old age, their children future, the cost of living, immigrant, job security?

Anonymous said...

Of course getting too many immigrants is one of the course in driving up cost of living?

Anonymous said...

I was just back from South Korea in Dec. You can notice how efficient the system is when you visit their foodcourt in the mall..everyone play their part. The patrons return their tray automatically without the need for big posters to remind them. This can only be achieved when you are proud to be a citizen!

RookieLim

Anonymous said...

But Sinkies are not South Koreans.

And just like Sinkies, there are also the good and bad in South Koreans.

Of course the good and bad are also different lah.



Anonymous said...

Just as there are poor and rich Sinkies, there are also poor and rich South Koreans.

Whether as Sinkie or South Korean, just don't be poor.


Anonymous said...

At the popular book store today. .. at the 10 top of non fiction books is by nick vujicic ... unstoppable and life without limits. ..

If I say he is a bad role model, most, if not all will think I am an mad

50 years later. . you have arrived at your grave. ... well, the next vision is to expand your grave

Anonymous said...

These countries, japan, skorea, taiwan and hk are innovators while we are copy cats from the very beginning. We have too many geniuses working on too few things that is why there are so many rules and regulations. They banned the neon lights, killed fun, creativity and individual expressions, stop the extra babies... then reversed all the policies 180 degrees. And claim they are world best's leaders.

Anonymous said...

This small populations high successful countries, low income gap, high standard of living , surprisingly produce many world class companies, nobel prize winners & Olympic champions etc, because the put their effort develop and train the local populations, limited foreign immigrations, high educations successful social program, no overcrowding of infrastructures?
Matured multi -parties systems co operations with welcome good ideas and solutions, to bring up their local populations?

Anonymous said...

Sinkies although angry and fed up but being kiasi, will never vote out PAP in a GE.

Actually they are not that angry. Or else WP would have got 80% vote instead of 54% in Punggol BE.

Anonymous said...

Whether as innovators or copycats, most important is to make money.

What's the use of being innovator but losing money and become poor? Stupid, right?

Anonymous said...

Daddy! Daddy!
Singaporeans want to demonstrate against your policy of 6.9 million.

Daddy! Daddy!
How ah?
You said I will be Singapore's next Prime Minister, after you retire.
Still can or not ah?

Anonymous said...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-singapore-politics-idUSBRE91E07520130215

Singaporeans United!

Plucky Tam said...

"A PAPig troll seeks endorsement from the Opposition."

Since when did I attempt to seek endorsement from the SDP, NSP or RP?

Anonymous said...

A country successful doesn't depend on how much resources it has, it is depend the human capital?

Some countries have vast resources but not successful through mismanagement of its resources.

Some countries has little resource but are successful through care nurture of its local populations?

Plucky Tam said...

"Matured multi -parties systems co operations with welcome good ideas and solutions, to bring up their local populations?"

It's no coincidence that the most developed societies in the world are multi-party democracies. I find all this talk of finding a single opposition party to run the whole country rather backward and embarrassing. Only Third World people accustomed to totalitarian rule would express such sentiments.

Anonymous said...

Huat ah. Up up up. Be the best. The sky is the limit.

Huat ah!

Anonymous said...

Two interesting articles of interest to both alternative and PAP supporters:

a. Worldwide Cost of Living 2013, The Economist (Singapore is 6th, well "ahead" of HK now, sad to say!!)

Link:
https://www.eiu.com/public/topical_report.aspx?campaignid=WCol2013

b. The Next Supermodel, The Nordic countries
When the whole world is looking at socially progressive economic models, the red dot's ruling party is sticking to yesteryear's conservative right wing TINA Thatcher model.

Link:
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571136-politicians-both-right-and-left-could-learn-nordic-countries-next-supermodel

Anonymous said...

6.9 million population is not an issue but whether you are smart or not, that's the issue.




sure anot smartass?

Anonymous said...

A country human capital is its most important capital of all?

During World War 2 many highly talented individuals around the world escaped to USA, led to USA benefited from it and become no. 1 in the world and defeated Germany and Japan?

Serious thought should be given to what type of immigrants we want, not just add in the the number and make up the number.

Some developed countries only added in selected limited high skilled or talented individual to supplement it countries lacked of it and not to take away jobs of locals.

Any serious brain drain would had a long term effect on a country. A brain drain may be due to various factors, which they felt that own countries can't provide for their talents etc?

Anonymous said...

Unity is strength, talk is useless. Everyone should stop buying from shops that employed foreigners.

Anonymous said...

@ Plucky Tam
"A PAPig troll seeks endorsement from the Opposition."
"Since when did I attempt to seek endorsement from the SDP, NSP or RP?"

So you do admit that you are a PAPig troll.

First you quote Low Thia Khng.
Then you deny that you need his endorsement of PAP.

PAP is really running out of good people.
Too few good men.
PAP in the twilight years.

Anonymous said...

The more the merrier, huat ah.

Anonymous said...

"I think we have a competent government." - Low Thia Khiang
What low Probably means is a competent government in term of crewing things up and losing millions and billions of state assets

Make sense now ?

Anonymous said...

No your grammar dun make sense

Anonymous said...

Stop patronising businesses operate by aliens.

Anonymous said...

The main worry is human capital or brain drain leaving, which is most important for any country to success, not the abundance of resources, you can have abundance of resources, but if you mismanage, don’t have the technical skills to utilise it fully, the resources will be wasted, the countries will be doom?

Japan interior designers can import the teak wood from Indonesia and resell to to Singapore hotel, 10 times its original price, through its designers, designing the doing the interior decoration of the hotel, through their high skills, so they can sell it to the owner of the hotel 10 times?

When some of the most talent left Singapore it will be critical, can we cope with the flood, what about the constant MRT breakdown is it related to the brain drain, previously there are hardly any breakdown? Engineers leave the countries and go into other trades and constant replaced by cheaper foreigners, their years of training go into waste and the gain of other countries?

Those talented and highly educated will consider Singapore situations carefully do they have a future,is there are 7m people?

And the demand of their talents, job security etc. Heavy congestion, raising cost, through overcrowding, overpopulations and kept churning of people etc?

Anonymous said...

With people like you around, we all can sleep better at night.

Yucky Tam said...

"Those talented and highly educated will consider Singapore situations carefully do they have a future,is there are 7m people? "

Don't worry. Fucky Tam will still be around

Anonymous said...

More people, more people leave....keep topping up those who leave...for what? ...no heart no soul...just like your neighbors...never plan to stay long term...buy sell buy sell properties...all about money....die die....money first.....no conscience smart people...meritocracy mah....they get power...make the most money...

smart or assholes....goodness....your mothers can't tell the difference and still smelling their assholes and heaping them with praises...prostration...and yielding their assholes to them

Aiyoh...smack head

Anonymous said...

You are worse than the whores in geylang you throw your book at. They are your product!

Anonymous said...

With 7m population more older workers will replaced by cheaper new citizens?

The demand for various facilities will go up and the price will go up?

Woodbridge hospital will need more beds, due to psychological effect on congestions and living in a dense and more tense environments?

More brain drain, young populations well educated will move oversea to less crowded area?

More need to prepare for foods and water shortage? Singapore hadn't experience foods shortage and water rationing for a long time?

More contigency plans to prepare for floods and drought?

More preparations for contagious dieseas?

Anonymous said...

More idiots

Anonymous said...

With the current population, manners have already deteriorated beyond manageability. With more people there will be more wayang and useless campaigns(hypocrisy) to get people to behave or be civil which is not going to work in an extremely money minded and elitist society.

Hypocrisy, never featured in your national conversation as a major problem,will be the number one unresolvable social disease plaguing all its residences

The longer they stay in such close proximity, the more they die.

When the soul dies, so will society -a land of zombies in a beautifully landscaped garden by the world's best architect at best.

Pack and leave if you can

Anywhere with real space is still better

Anonymous said...

There is no love in Sin. Even your charity disgu$t$. Your religion? Please flush it..stinks like hell

Anonymous said...

It does not help that gahmen often talks like its a one big national university. By its locals vs foreigners remarks, it mills out a 'daft' cert for locals and a 'talent' cert for foreigners, making the marketplace to distinguish people calibre first and foremost on the basis of their passport and Identity card colours. This foreign favouritism is statistically erased once they become sinkies through expedited citizenship.

Anonymous said...

wow you are one smart goon!

innovator said...

@ Anonymous 15/2/13 14:47

"..Whether as innovators or copycats, most important is to make money.

What's the use of being innovator but losing money and become poor? Stupid, right?"


This is typical of a small business mind which will always vote PAP.

Your model may provide you mercedes 300 and 3 homes but after that, its finished. Overtaken by cheaper alternatives.

Anonymous said...

/// Your model may provide you mercedes 300 and 3 homes but after that, its finished. Overtaken by cheaper alternatives. ///

Is that what happened to you?
And so bo pian.
Become a PAPig internet troll?

Anonymous said...

Overtaken by funeral

Anonymous said...

Has the unprecedented occurrences of dengue outbreaks here got to do with foreign imports of contaminated livestock or goods becos it only becomes frequent in recent years with the FT policy.

Anonymous said...

Could overpopulations , overcrowding, brain drain, misallocatons of resources cause, deforestations to build infrastructures causes increase severity of floods and increase breakdowns in MRT? Causes climate changes? Reduce carbon footprint?

Anonymous said...

Unit Nine Overpopulation and Social behavior

(李 玉 锐)

Questions.

What do the scientists conclude at the end of their experiments with rats?

( Overcrowding causes a break down in normal relationship among rats, also a kind of social disease.)

Were the female rats most seriously affected by the high population density? What’s the behavior of them ?

( Yes , they were.)

They showed strange maternal behavior.

They did not behave as mother rats normally do.

They sometimes abandoned their babies, and without their mother’s care, the babies died.

Their behavior may be considered diseased, pathological.

What were the dominant male rats’ behavior?

(They too were affected by the general overcrowding in the enclosure. They did behave pathologically at times. Their antisocial behavior consisted of attacks on weaker male, female, and immature rats.)

What were the human behavior compared with that of rats in psychologists’ experiment?

(People in densely populated areas exhibit strange behavior similar to that of rats.)

What was the author’s implied meaning?

( Overpopulation is a serious problem in our society. We should make control of it.)

The behavior of the female rats: abandon babies .

The behavior of the dominant male rats: claim, attack.

The behavior of nondominant male rats: some withdraw, some were hyperactive.

Human behavior: abandon children, cruel, powerful, withdraw, hyperactive.

Anonymous said...

Overcrowding also leads to increased frequency of strokes.

Anonymous said...

More people, more overcrowding, and definitely more suffering for all especially the ordinary folks.

But despite this, for the ordinary foreign talents, life is still better here than where they came from. Or else why would they want to come here in this first place, tio bo?

For ordinary Sinkies, of course life become worse than before. And for the males, they still have to sacrifice for NS to protect all, foreign talents included.

So for ordinary Sinkies, they are having a bad deal and lose out badly, and end up worse than before.

Hence it will reach a point where they will fight back.

Punggol East is one example. They even unexpectedly gave the majority vote to Ah Lian, something unthinkable in the past.

Another is big turnout at Hong Lim rally yesterday despite the rain.

The grand finale may happen in GE 2016, even if opposition is not ready. By then, if there is chaos, they may think there is really nothing more to lose.

Hence PAP need to seriously rethink on their policies. There is always a turning point where enough is enough.